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Discussion Starter #1
I'm starting this as a separate topic so that it does not get lost in the Coronavirus thread.

While travel in general and cruises as part of that have been talked about in regards to COVID-19, I think recent events warrant a separate thread since there do seem to be some posters in this forum for whom it will be relevant.

Most are probably aware of the situation with the Grand Princess cruise ship currently sitting off San Francisco and hoping to be allowed to dock. Some may not be aware of other cruise ship issues in Egypt and SE Asia that are current.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-keep-passengers-on-grand-princess-cruise-ship-coronavirus-2020-3

https://globalnews.ca/news/6644642/coronavirus-egypt-cruise/

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-costa-fortuna-cruise-ship-denied-by-malaysia-thailand-ports-2020-3

Our own Chief Public Health Officer, Dr. Theresa Tam is now warning people to 'think twice' about getting on a cruise ship, particularly those over 60 which I find ironic since that is probably the largest demographic on most cruise ships.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6642384/coronavirus-cruises-think-twice/

An important point she made in my opinion was the issue of finding yourself in a quarantine situation under 'by other national authorities'. The point being, there may be little Canada can do when that happens. So for example, if Trump got his way and the 200+ Canadians on the Grand Princess are not allowed to disembark, Canada would have no say in what happens to those Canadians.

It isn't just a question of getting sick, there are other factors that are unique to it being on a cruise ship. They can refuse docking and disembarking, you couldn't really do that with a plane or train or bus and once you come under the law of a given country, that country has control of your movement, not you.
 

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We cancelled our trip to Florida because being self employed it is easy for us to book another vacation.I just don't want to get stuck outside of Canada if this thing goes to **** lol
 

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It isn't just cruise ships. Resorts and hotels are also a problem. A person came home from Las Vegas with the virus.

Best right now to take a nice vacation on an isolated farm in the middle of nowhere Saskatchewan.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
It isn't just cruise ships. Resorts and hotels are also a problem. A person came home from Las Vegas with the virus.

Best right now to take a nice vacation on an isolated farm in the middle of nowhere Saskatchewan.
What if the farm owner just got back from a cruise? LOL
 

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Discussion Starter #5
We cancelled our trip to Florida because being self employed it is easy for us to book another vacation.I just don't want to get stuck outside of Canada if this thing goes to **** lol
The real issue around this marina628 is people who have booked and paid and are facing losing their money if they cancel. There was an earlier comment on this on the main Coronavirus thread where someone clearly said, 'don't want to lose $XXXX, so going anyway.'

Money is getting in the way of making a prudent decision for many people with all kinds of vacation bookings right now.
 

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Virtual reality and a sun lamp.......sit on the beach in your own living room.
 

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The real issue around this marina628 is people who have booked and paid and are facing losing their money if they cancel. There was an earlier comment on this on the main Coronavirus thread where someone clearly said, 'don't want to lose $XXXX, so going anyway.'

Money is getting in the way of making a prudent decision for many people with all kinds of vacation bookings right now.
that's easy to say, for someone who may not have $xxxx tied up in down payments etc..., but I can fully appreciate that thinking..

If I had a booking somewhere, & some more-prudent decision-maker offered to reimburse me, I might re-consider...
 

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The money is spent regardless if you go or not. The difference is that if you go you could contract the virus or get quarantined for weeks.
 

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Not that it matters what Adrian Dix (Health Minister of BC) thinks, but he said if someone asked him whether they should go, he said... don't go.

I wouldn't remotely consider going on a cruise now. Not that I would want to be rubbing shoulders with thousands of others in close quarters subject to every infection known to man in the best of times. Nothing worse than a cruise ship for cross-contamination to begin with. Ever look at a jar of pickled herring?
 

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You are absolutely insane to go on a cruise anywhere in the world in the next 6 months.

Do you really want to be quarantined on a ship in a foreign country for 14 days or more, be landed and forced to quarantine for 14 days or more, and then coming home to Canada and imagine then catching the actual virus and being sick for 2-3 weeks followed by another 2 week quarantine? What a nightmare.
 

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The news media are always quoting the "14 day" quarantine, but the reality is that the quarantine begins anew every time another passenger is found to be infected with the virus.

People could be quarantined on the cruise ships until 14 days from the last infection, which could be months in the future.

It is only when everyone is removed from the boat and placed in their own isolation quarantine that they can start their individual 14 day period.
 

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There was an article about a woman trapped on the latest cruise ship.

Unfortunately, she has cancer and is taking rounds of chemotherapy treatment. They decided to take the cruise in mid-February knowing about the coronavirus on a sister ship.

Now she is unable to get the chemo therapy she needs. Hopefully, authorities can figure out how to remove her from the ship, put her in isolation in the hospital and begin her treatments.

There are something like 245 Canadians on the ship. Will Canada have to bring them back and isolate them as they did passengers from the other cruise ship.

The time might come that resources are challenged to the point that authorities can't respond adequately to such problems. People need to bear in mind they may be on their own.
 

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The problem humans have, and I have stated this problem pertaining to just about everything people do in their lives, is that the human brain has a powerful ability to adjust a person's reasoning towards what they actually want to see happen. In other words we seem to have a very hard time dealing with "bias".

Most people can see others being biased all the time, but seem to feel that they are immune to it, because they believe that they think about all the pros and cons and that they somehow can make a more fair judgement towards whatever issue they are dealing with. Not only are they wrong on that, but because they don't really understand the power that bias has in their reasoning, they usually make the more biased decisions.

Soooo, because of the bias of "not wanting to lose money" or "I really need this vacation" or "I am young and will probably survive anyway", etc., they make what I would say, the wrong decision.

I usually point out this human trait of bias, that we all have and have difficulty dealing with, when it comes to what many here call unethical financial advisors. However, as I said, we all have it, and it seems to be working in its usual powerful way in the decisions people are making with respect to this virus, as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
that's easy to say, for someone who may not have $xxxx tied up in down payments etc..., but I can fully appreciate that thinking..

If I had a booking somewhere, & some more-prudent decision-maker offered to reimburse me, I might re-consider...
Anyone can understand the thinking jargey3000. No one wants to lose money. But that does not change a bad decision into a good decision. It just explains why the person made a bad decision.
 

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The real issue around this marina628 is people who have booked and paid and are facing losing their money if they cancel. There was an earlier comment on this on the main Coronavirus thread where someone clearly said, 'don't want to lose $XXXX, so going anyway.'

Money is getting in the way of making a prudent decision for many people with all kinds of vacation bookings right now.
Yes my friends are leaving next Sunday for a panama cruise and cannot get refund , my life is worth more than a few thousand though :0
 

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The problem with cruises is that it changes the equation from the probability of you contracting the virus to what is the probability of anyone on the cruise contracting the virus. Once 1 single person contracts this thing, the entire ship is quarantined. Not only does that result in at least two 14 day quarantines (so 28 days minimum) but I would also think that your chances of contracting it later would be much higher when imprisoned on a virus affected ship.

So even if you are careful, wearing masks and gloves, washing your face and disinfecting every item that touched anything someone else might have touched.
Unless others are doing the same, if one gets sick you are in the same boat as them. I guess that is where that phrase comes from. The weakest link will determine the fate of all.
 

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Most people can see others being biased all the time, but seem to feel that they are immune to it, because they believe that they think about all the pros and cons and that they somehow can make a more fair judgement towards whatever issue they are dealing with. Not only are they wrong on that, but because they don't really understand the power that bias has in their reasoning, they usually make the more biased decisions.

Soooo, because of the bias of "not wanting to lose money" or "I really need this vacation" or "I am young and will probably survive anyway", etc., they make what I would say, the wrong decision.
People definitely have a bias, no doubt about that. Don't forget bias works boths ways (positive and negative) and the amount of skew to rational decision making varies quite a bit. Fear is a huge bias but can be both positive (keeping you safe) and negative (stops you from doing things). One has to examine the underlying risks and try to make an informed and rational decision based on facts. So one has to ask themselves, does your bias outweigh the real facts at hand?
 

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The problem humans have, and I have stated this problem pertaining to just about everything people do in their lives, is that the human brain has a powerful ability to adjust a person's reasoning towards what they actually want to see happen. In other words we seem to have a very hard time dealing with "bias".

Most people can see others being biased all the time, but seem to feel that they are immune to it, because they believe that they think about all the pros and cons and that they somehow can make a more fair judgement towards whatever issue they are dealing with. Not only are they wrong on that, but because they don't really understand the power that bias has in their reasoning, they usually make the more biased decisions.

Soooo, because of the bias of "not wanting to lose money" or "I really need this vacation" or "I am young and will probably survive anyway", etc., they make what I would say, the wrong decision.

I usually point out this human trait of bias, that we all have and have difficulty dealing with, when it comes to what many here call unethical financial advisors. However, as I said, we all have it, and it seems to be working in its usual powerful way in the decisions people are making with respect to this virus, as well.
... there is a significant difference between the 2 bias is that the former is taking the risk on their own (or as LTA mentioned somewhere "self-justify") whereas the latter's bias is for self-interest/gain at the expense/risk of the other party. And note I haven't started about "unethical" advisors yet (hopefully continuous banging on this "point" will reduce those numbers).
 
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