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Discussion Starter #301
If anyone is interested, here is a "Conservative" opinion on the latest gun restrictions.

A violent person without a licence gets illegally smuggled guns.
This is in violation of multiple laws and is reported to the police.
The police do not enforce the very strict gun laws we have.
The violent person murders several people.
Public outcry to "do something".

Government doesn't take any action that informed parties, such as the police, border guards or firearms experts recommend.
Government passes illogical regulations that would not have prevented the recent crime, and are unlikely to prevent crime in the future, but will cost hundreds of millions of dollars.

Conservatives are furious about another expensive Government program, that isn't expected to have a significant impact on the root problem.
 

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Brief video taken from the Canadian Film board documentary, "The Man who Studies Murder".
Explains why Newfoundland has almost the lowest crime rate in recorded history despite the fact almost every household has firearms.
 

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Yes, suicide rates in high risk jobs are elevated, we've known for decades there is a mental health crisis in those jobs.
Interesting that you don't mention gun crime, or overall deaths, or murders.
This is a common trick, you purposesly self select a datapoint that itself is misleading.
If we got rid of 100% of all guns, except those possessed by legitimate police and military while on duty, then 100% of gun deaths would be by police/military. So what's your point?

Secondly suicide isn't a crime, and the gun ban on "assault rifles' doesn't do anything about that anyway. A single shot shutgun, which isn't banned, is likely the best tool for that job anyway.

I'd like to point out that US data shows licensed CCW/gun owners have a lower crime rate than pretty much every group, including police.
Canadian data shows a similar trend.
Licenced law abiding gun owners commit crimes at one of the lowest rates in the country, and virtually none of the gun homicides in this country are from licensed gun owners.

FYI, insurance companies don't even care if you have a gun in the house, for liability or life insurance. Statistically it simply isn't a factor in Canada. Everyone who understands gun stats knows this stuff.

There is a case to be made for everything, but could we at least start enforcing the laws?
I have a question, if the police do not enforce the current gun laws, how will more laws, change anything?
At some point we have to ENFORCE the laws we have.

NS would have never happened, except for a massive failure to enforce the law, and the police to do their job.
I would argue that the actions of the police in NS were criminally negligent, and that's the problem.
Man, you're still not getting it. Your solution is mandatory minimums that won't pass under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms when you know 100% that a conservative majority government wasn't even able to get that implemented and make it stick.

You are cherry-picking the data to isolate only on gun crimes(20-25%) whereas I'm pointing out ALL gun deaths which include Suicides, Accidental and Homicides (100%)

The Ban itself isn't perfect as there's many firearms that are overlooked and excluded but it's a good step.
 

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The rifle that Canadian Rangers chose. They live off the land, so they know what they need to hunt.

 

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Discussion Starter #305
Man, you're still not getting it. Your solution is mandatory minimums that won't pass under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms when you know 100% that a conservative majority government wasn't even able to get that implemented and make it stick.

You are cherry-picking the data to isolate only on gun crimes(20-25%) whereas I'm pointing out ALL gun deaths which include Suicides, Accidental and Homicides (100%)

The Ban itself isn't perfect as there's many firearms that are overlooked and excluded but it's a good step.
That isn't "my solution".

In the NS case, they didn't even investigate. They simply aren't enforcing the current laws we have.

If law enforcement actually enforced the laws we had, and judges put violent criminals in jail, we'd experience a massive reduction in violent crime. If you're violent and a danger to society, you should be in jail. I'm sorry that some overeducated morons think this is "unfair", but they're wrong.

If the law was enforced in NS, 23 people would be alive today. That's a simple fact.


I'm not the one cherry picking data, you're the one who is selecting a specific data measure that proves your point.
If you remove every single legal civilian firearm in Canada, you're still left with most of the gun crime.
If you remove every single illegal firearm (which they're not even trying to do), you'd still have police gun deaths (that's the stat YOU chose)

Looking at the UK, even a massive near complete ban on firearms, they still have too many homicides, and other violent crimes.


Suicide is a completely separate issue, lots of high suicide countries have low gun ownership, lots of high gun ownership countries have low suicide rates. The gun suicide argument is just a red herring.

Back to what I hope we can agree on.
1. Violent people should not have access to firearms.
2. If a person is suspected of committing a crime, such as illegally possessing or using firearms, it should be investigated.
 
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