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Discussion Starter #62 (Edited)
With all the talk of these economic and trade fears, I think it's easy to forget just how amazingly well stocks have done recently. Both US and Canadian stock indices are practically at their all time highs right now.

I was benchmarking some funds over the last 3.5 years. Here is how some some of the funds in this thread stack up, with annualized return after fees:

RBF1006: 6.4%
GGF31148: 6.4%
INI120: 6.6%
MAW104: 7.5%
PHN350: 7.5%

As far as I can tell the mid 6% are the category average, and Mawer and PH&N are running higher.

I realize that start dates are arbitrary and can make a difference, but all of these are looking very strong over the last few years. That's over 4% real return for each!

Keep in mind though, these are stock-heavy. Stocks are at all time highs, and bonds have been doing well too. Under these circumstances a 60/40 portfolio should be performing at full steam... this is a best case scenario.
 

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Both US and Canadian stock indices are practically at their all time highs right now.[/QUOTE said:
Yeah, I don't know about US stocks, but the Canadian Index has been pretty much sideways for quite some time except for that nasty dip in January 2019.

Here's a simple 1 year chart of XIC. Certainly nothing to hang your hat on.

XIC One Year.png

Even back to Jan 2018, the Canadian Index looks a bit anemic since then. No real gains.
Here's a chart of XIC since Jan 2018.

XIC Jan 2018.png

I don't buy US Indexes myself, but I understand they've done well, but I can't say the same for Canadian Indexes.

As far as individual Canadian stocks, some have done well and some not. I've done pretty good this year, but the Index ain't that great if you discount the dip.

I'd call it a sideways market in Canada for a couple years. You have to work at it to make money.

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Discussion Starter #64 (Edited)
Those are non dividend adjusted charts, and the Canadian index has large dividends compared to S&P 500 so you have to look at total return.

Here's total return of XIC over 4 years... Canadian stocks are quite high right now, just about at all time highs. We're now up 54% since the TSX low in 2016.

XIC-4years.png


Here's a longer term view back to 2010. These are tremendous gains in the TSX. I think it's hard to dispute that this is a powerful rally, continuing to near all time highs currently:

XIC-longterm.png
 

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Those are non dividend adjusted charts, and the Canadian index has large dividends compared to S&P 500 so you have to look at total return.

Here's total return of XIC over 4 years... Canadian stocks are quite high right now, just about at all time highs. We're now up 54% since the TSX low in 2016. Are my eyes deceiving me? This looks like a strong bull run in the TSX.
Actually, those charts are from the TMX site including dividends, but they did completely modify their web site about 2 weeks ago, so maybe the charts aren't working as advertised.

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Discussion Starter #66
I edited after you posted I think, added a longer term chart. I agree that there's been a lot of volatility in the last year or so but in the big picture, I still see the TSX in what looks like a strong bull run. That's 7% CAGR going back a decade... great return from the index.
 

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Actually, those charts are from the TMX site including dividends, but they did completely modify their web site about 2 weeks ago, so maybe the charts aren't working as advertised.
ltr
Don't you love it when websites subscribe to, "it ain't broke, but we'll fix it anyway".

It looks to me like your chart was pulled from the 'Quote' tab for xic. You can click on the 'Charting' tab and then click on 'Click here to access legacy charting' to get the old format. Who knows how long that choice will exist though. As they say, "all good things come to an end".

The quote tab will not allow you to integrate dividends and splits (only show what date they occurred). The charting tab (new format) allows you to choose dividends and splits, but it doesn't actually work as far as I can tell. :rolleyes2: Maybe the adage is "it ain't broke, so we'll break it"?

Anyway, the 'legacy' charting does still work to provide a 'total return'. As with all of these total return charting apps, what they actually do is artificially reduce the starting share/unit value for the selected period so that total return over the period takes you to the current price.
I prefer to add one or more comparison items to the chart and then it will then give you a % return over the period - either with or without reinvested dividends depending which you have selected. Choose another etf, mf or stock - don't choose an index as a second item because it will not give a proper total return.
The legacy charting does not allow a custom period, only the canned periods. Oh well, I guess we get what we (didn't) pay for.

Here is 2 years of XIC with dividends and splits compared to XEG (iShares capped energy) for grins & giggles:

2YR XIC, XEG incl divs.PNG
 

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Don't you love it when websites subscribe to, "it ain't broke, but we'll fix it anyway".

It looks to me like your chart was pulled from the 'Quote' tab for xic. You can click on the 'Charting' tab and then click on 'Click here to access legacy charting' to get the old format. Who knows how long that choice will exist though. As they say, "all good things come to an end".

The quote tab will not allow you to integrate dividends and splits (only show what date they occurred). The charting tab (new format) allows you to choose dividends and splits, but it doesn't actually work as far as I can tell. :rolleyes2: Maybe the adage is "it ain't broke, so we'll break it"?

Anyway, the 'legacy' charting does still work to provide a 'total return'. As with all of these total return charting apps, what they actually do is artificially reduce the starting share/unit value for the selected period so that total return over the period takes you to the current price.
I prefer to add one or more comparison items to the chart and then it will then give you a % return over the period - either with or without reinvested dividends depending which you have selected. Choose another etf, mf or stock - don't choose an index as a second item because it will not give a proper total return.
The legacy charting does not allow a custom period, only the canned periods. Oh well, I guess we get what we (didn't) pay for.
OMG OMO (I always wanted to say that), it appears that the new advanced charting for TMX simply doesn't work. The reason I didn't go to the 'Click here to access legacy charting' is because they have degraded that also by not allowing cursor pricing.

So I check XIC using the 'new advanced charting' and you can see the two charts below. One is with dividends and one is without. Unfortunately, they're exactly the same. Duh. Sigh. Give programmers an inch and they'll ruin a site in minutes. The new site is horrible. A bunch of programming bloatware.

XIC One year Unadjusted for Dividends.

Unadjusted XIC.png

XIC One year Adjusted for dividends

Dividends XIC.png

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Discussion Starter #69
Adding iShares XBAL to this list

This became a diversified asset allocation ETF similar to VBAL starting in 2019. Performance of XBAL and VBAL are very similar and will probably continue to be similar. If I had to choose between these I would personally lean towards XBAL because some of its major holdings are flagship iShares funds (XIC and XBB) which have excellent history.
 

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I always enjoy reading the Quarterly summaries from MAWER.
The Q4 summary is here.
These summaries provide a helpful analysis on past events, and in the last few paragraphs, a few ideas on what to expect, or what not to expect in the coming decade. The managers evaluate the performance of each of their funds - and in doing so, provide a glimpse on the cause and effect that drove performance in each of their US, Int., Can., FI, and other Mutual funds. one takeaway that I have and will somewhat temper my expectations for 202 can be found in the final few paragraphs.

We would caution that it is unlikely for your portfolio’s return in 2020 to match what it achieved in 2019. From a valuation perspective, there is a higher degree of risk in the portfolio today versus a year ago: in aggregate, the increase in our underlying companies’ free cash flow per share has not increased as much as the portfolio’s mark-to-market value over the past year. And we know that investor psychology can be fickle.
 

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I love those Mawer kids...I was a bit dismayed that they did try to sell the firm....the only value is the brains behind the funds.
 

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I hold MAW104 in two registered accounts. I am going with the trend as long as the gig lasts. I have happy with first quartile performance on that fund category on a consistent basis.
 

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MAW105 is the only mutual fund I own. I have held it for a good number of years now. I was not aware that they put themselves up for sale.
 

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MAW105 is the only mutual fund I own. I have held it for a good number of years now. I was not aware that they put themselves up for sale.
I think that is a bit of an overstatement. Mawer did ask for a strategic review. Quoted from Dec 7, 2018 G&M article
Mawer launched its strategic review after a number of long-standing independent firms sold themselves to large Canadian banks. In 2018 alone, Bank of Nova Scotia acquired MD Management for $2.6-billion and Jarislowsky Fraser Ltd. for $950-million, while Toronto-Dominion Bank acquired Greystone Managed Investments Inc. for $792-million.

Lately, the banks have been hungry for asset managers because they see wealth management as their major growth driver over the next decade. The lending and housing boom is cooling, and baby boomers are approaching and entering retirement, which raises questions about saving and investing.

Many asset managers are also searching for scale. The share of investable assets that are in exchange-traded funds is growing rapidly, and the biggest global providers of ETFs, such as BlackRock Inc., can spread their fixed expenses over trillions of dollars in assets. In turn, they charge extremely low fund fees. Rivals often feel the need to acquire in order to compete.

Against this backdrop, asset managers have been selling for good prices. Canadian money managers are typically purchased for somewhere between 1 per cent and 3 per cent of their assets under management (AUM), but Bank of Nova Scotia recently acquired MD Management for 5.3 per cent of its AUM. At that same level, Mawer would have been worth $2.65-billion.
It was a test of worth. Nothing to fret much about really. Everyone has a price.
 

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Probably from the same article in December 2018.

Calgary’s Mawer Investment Management Ltd., which oversees $50-billion of client money, has decided not to sell itself. Instead, it will forge ahead as an independent firm.

For more than 40 years, Mawer has operated as an independent that is free from bank ownership. In November, however, the company revealed that it had hired bankers to consider a sale amid a frothy market for asset managers.

At the time, Mawer stressed that a sale was not guaranteed. On Friday, the firm formally ruled one out.

“While we appreciate the external interest in the firm, the process reconfirmed our long-standing belief that Mawer’s high-performing team and culture, investment approach, and client-centric focus is best sustained by continuing our independent ownership model started over 40 years ago,” Mawer president Michael Mezei said in a statement.
 

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I hope Mawer continues to stay independent and do as they have done in the past. I hold it in a taxable account and would prefer to sell when I no longer have employment income.
 

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Has this been discussed here? - a balanced monthly income ETF from BMO.
ZMI. https://www.morningstar.ca/ca/report...x?t=0P0000SDE6

Yield ~4,33%; MER 0.61%; Total Return since inception 5.5%.

About 17.5% Canada, 9.25% USA, 16% Int., 40% Fixed Income.
Uses other BMO funds, I believe. https://www.bmo.com/assets/pdfs/gam/qpd-etf/en/bmoZMI_qpd-Eng.pdf

Anybody own this or have thoughts about it? (Here are some: https://stockchase.com/company/view/4307/ZMI-T )

This would probably be best in a registered account?

MAW104 has had better past performance, if regular income is not important? Allocations of both are somewhat similar. Maybe past performance not such a good indicator?
 

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Discussion Starter #79 (Edited)
Has this been discussed here? - a balanced monthly income ETF from BMO.
ZMI. https://www.morningstar.ca/ca/report...x?t=0P0000SDE6
There's a thorough discussion here: Why not ZMI instead of VBAL?
And this page in particular: https://www.canadianmoneyforum.com/showthread.php/139582-Why-not-ZMI-instead-of-VBAL/page4

I was interested in ZMI at first, but then others pointed out that it achieves high yields through some of the exotic derivative based funds. It's too weird for me.

Currently I think the best high yielding "balanced fund" is BMO Monthly Income D series, which is mentioned earlier in this thread. I think it yields a little over 3% yield so it's a bit of a yield boost versus most balanced funds.
 

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I was interested in ZMI at first, but then others pointed out that it achieves high yields through some of the exotic derivative based funds. It's too weird for me.
According to the Stockchase comments, that was once the case, but things have changed.

By John Hood:
This was a little bit controversial because it was including a lot of “return of capital” rather than “return on capital” because of some of the investments they had. They have changed this in the last few months so it is a more straightforward ETF. Nothing wrong with it. It has a whole bunch of different products in it and now it is fine.
Larry Berman, who likes to be an ETF guru seems to think ZMI is a good etf. Nevertheless, I don't like the idea that it is made up of all those subsidiary etfs. But then Maw104 is like that too? But maybe less complex?

PS: Memory must be failing me - forgot we discussed ZMI in past!
 
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