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From my understanding it's opening on both the TSX and new york tomorrow. Anyone know what the ticker will be when it's released?
Anyone thinking of buying in early?
Anyone thinking of buying in early?
Gm ipo
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TSX = GMM
NYSE = GM
Not buying. I rather add to my existing Ford shares.
Good luck!
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156 Posts
I'm thinking this might be a $1000 buy sell in the day... But since I now realize it's past 4pm I can't sell the shares I was going to, so that I'd have some money to play with...
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7,252 Posts
I'm curious why you think so.
Do you think the IPo price of $33 is too high?
If you look at Ford, they have done phenomenally well since the recession.
GM is doing well these days, and in emerging markets as well.
What are your reasons for not liking it?
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I would add that Ford has done very well indeed, but without taking any money from taxpayers and exactly what attracted me to the shares in the first place.
The restructuring of GM [or 'Government Motors' as K.O'Leary calls it]
is also working thus far, but too early to predict future success and let's not forget the 50+ billion they owe the government.
The restructuring of GM [or 'Government Motors' as K.O'Leary calls it]
is also working thus far, but too early to predict future success and let's not forget the 50+ billion they owe the government.
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I doubt you'd get a chance at the IPO anyway , anything worthwhile or in vogue goes to the big boys first , the average joe has to buy in afterwards on the secondary market.
Five out of nine IPOs lose money initially , the US government still has a huge holding in GM and will be selling down their position in the near future , a lot of overhang for future dilution.
$33 is a fair value , but I personally wouldn't invest in a company whose past management has led them into bankruptcy , and now only exists due to handouts from unwilling taxpayers , can they really make it on their own once uncle sam pulls out , or do they do it all over again.
Only time will tell , but GM has a shady past going back into the twenties , not that any of the big three were overly honorable , but GM was always the worst of the lot.
In my opinion , they still are , and I doubt they have learned anything from the bailout , they are already trying to push up sales by getting more into the sub-prime car loans than the other auto makers , a potential recipe for repeating their past.
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Buy the dealers. They tend to make money at any price point of vehicle. If sales are good they make a tonne of money selling new cars and if sales are bad they make a tonne of money fixing the old ones. AutoCanada (ACQ) comes to mind here.
I believe in large dinosaur companies dying completely so that a new company can have a fresh start. I believe that company has too much baggage still with its labor force, pension plan liabilities and old school culture.
However, that doesn't mean that the stock will not move. What I would be afraid of is the government ownership of GM. It will still own 33% of the company and it will try to slowly sell off its stake after 6 months. If that happens, then I think the stock may behave like Citibank which has been stymied by the government trying to sell its ownership all year.
"The most important rule of all: The banks handling IPOs -- called underwriters -- get to pick who gets the shares at the offering price. And critics say those shares often go to favored clients or potential clients -- that is, institutions that pay lots of trading commissions to the banks, not the small fry."
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/GM-offering-may-leave-out-apf-2266902336.html?x=0
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/GM-offering-may-leave-out-apf-2266902336.html?x=0
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156 Posts
Everyone misses the fact that Ford practically mortgaged everything it owned, factories and all in order to not take the bailout money. In the end GM may be in a better position as they didn't have to pay back all of their previous debts.I would add that Ford has done very well indeed, but without taking any money from taxpayers and exactly what attracted me to the shares in the first place.
The restructuring of GM [or 'Government Motors' as K.O'Leary calls it]
The biggest issue for me is that the company is going onto the market to get capital to pay down some debts... not expand the business.
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Hmmm. Apparently GM paid back the gov't loans -- but do a google search for 'gm paid back government loan' and read up.
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It's worse...the entire proceeds of the pref. issue will be used to pay into the underfunded UAW pension plans.
Them puir, hard-wokking, 'onest folks need their puir pensions, right?
Who cares if the company goes bankrupt every 10 years.
The labor unions have destroyed this company in the past, and they will do so again.
North american auto manufacturers cannot become globally (and locally) competitive until they can get themselves out of the clutches of these unions.
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6,983 Posts
But I think Ford had foresight in doing this and what they got for what they owned was great because if they had gone bankrupt, the value would have gone down tremendously and in some cases they may not have been able to get anything during the liquidity crisis. I'm only guessing here.
In addition, Ford can still sell itself now as the company that did not take tax payer's dollars.
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I personally think being still family owned (partially) may have something to do with it as well.
Pride of ownership, accountability, etc.
OTOH, GM & Chrystler are just brick-and-mortar corporations run by blue suits with an MBA, looking to be on the cover of CEO of the year magazine and a $40M bonus.
I did have the opportunity to buy GM ipo. (retired)
Will try to go thru my thinking with the note that I was wrong (so far) on every street.
Got my letter 6 weeks ago.
1/ Markets are at some sort of peak so bad time to buy ipo.
2/ They are offering to employees tells me big institution were not interested.
3/ Selling large amount to China.
4/ I had until Oct 15 to register as interested. That date was extended to Oct. 22. Again a sign of weakness.
Finally got the US prospectus 560 pg last week and the Canadian 540pg.
I read most of the 1100 pg and decided that a first day spike for click and cash would not likely happen. So I went fishing with the hopes that it would over correct and I could buy late today.
Ford not taking bail out money was mostly because they were in the worse shape 3-4 years ago and had already went thur there restructuring.
At the time GM and Daimler Chrysler were stronger and got caught in wall streets mess. That being said they both were going to restructure and most likely would have look much the same today.
Toyota went to Japan Gov. and receive 25 billion. That got 5 line news report that they were asking and a 3 lines that they got it.
I applied for 800 shares and can't get on web site to see if I was offered any.
Will try to go thru my thinking with the note that I was wrong (so far) on every street.
Got my letter 6 weeks ago.
1/ Markets are at some sort of peak so bad time to buy ipo.
2/ They are offering to employees tells me big institution were not interested.
3/ Selling large amount to China.
4/ I had until Oct 15 to register as interested. That date was extended to Oct. 22. Again a sign of weakness.
Finally got the US prospectus 560 pg last week and the Canadian 540pg.
I read most of the 1100 pg and decided that a first day spike for click and cash would not likely happen. So I went fishing with the hopes that it would over correct and I could buy late today.
Ford not taking bail out money was mostly because they were in the worse shape 3-4 years ago and had already went thur there restructuring.
At the time GM and Daimler Chrysler were stronger and got caught in wall streets mess. That being said they both were going to restructure and most likely would have look much the same today.
Toyota went to Japan Gov. and receive 25 billion. That got 5 line news report that they were asking and a 3 lines that they got it.
I applied for 800 shares and can't get on web site to see if I was offered any.
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