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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
September 14 2006 - we have no more than 10 years left to act


msnbc.com news services
updated 9/14/2006 6:17:24 PM ET

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SACRAMENTO, Calif. — A leading U.S. climate researcher says the world has a 10-year window of opportunity to take decisive action on global warming and avert catastrophe.

NASA scientist James Hansen, widely considered the doyen of American climate researchers, said governments must adopt an alternative scenario to keep carbon dioxide emission growth in check and limit the increase in global temperatures to 1 degree Celsius (1.8 degrees Fahrenheit).

“I think we have a very brief window of opportunity to deal with climate change ... no longer than a decade, at the most,” Hansen said Wednesday at the Climate Change Research Conference in California’s state capital.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/14834318/ns/us_news-environment/t/warming-expert-only-decade-left-act-time/

November 8 2019

Another Arctic Surge to Deliver Record Mid-November Cold Next Week to the Plains, Midwest, South and East
https://weather.com/forecast/regional/news/2019-11-08-arctic-cold-outbreak-mid-november-record-midwest-south-east

This is why they had to rebrand "Global Warming" as "Climate Change"

Further comment would be superfluous.
 

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I could use a little bit of warming. I'm already sick and tired of the cold weather and snow and it's not even December yet.

Perhaps the planet has changed it's mind and decided to freeze us to death. One way or the other, the planet will win.
 

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Oahu has been 30 C everyday last few weeks...I think its because there's an oil fired power planet near here supplying 90% of our power. Shitty sledding though.
 

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Oahu has been 30 C everyday last few weeks...I think its because there's an oil fired power planet near here supplying 90% of our power. Shitty sledding though.
In July 2019 for the state of Hawaii, 609,000 Mwh of electricity was petroleum generated, 120,000 Mwh was coal generated, and 131,000 was non-hydro renewables. Hydro is close to zero due to limited opportunities.
 

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I agree. Have been asking that question for years. Every time I go there. What is holding it back?
 

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What would suggest they do at night?

ltr
Individual homes and commercial establishments would have battery storage. More difficult for municipal and industrial applications but Hawaii does have a goal of 100% renewable by 2045. Overly optimistic given military and industrial needs but maybe doable given strategically located Hawaii in both the sun belt and trade winds. I have no doubt a surge (and momentum) will develop at some point in time. The real question is when. The public has to be on board for such enormous investment.
 

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What would suggest they do at night?

ltr
Battery storage. You could keep the oil plants for night-time use, but the cost per kWh has to be appalling. So every drop you don't have to burn is money in the bank. Apparently, the average rate in Hawaii is $0.37/kWh, or $0.50 CAD. Yikes. Makes me feel better about the 95% of my energy consumption that happens at Ontario's offpeak rate at CAD$0.065 (a bit more when you include the variable part of distribution). But my bill has a higher fixed component than variable. This is why I laugh at all the people in Ontario who have been freaking out about our hydro rates, including claims that we have the highest rates in NA. I have no idea how anyone reaches that conclusion, as you can just about name any state and they have higher rates than we do.

At any rate, for what Hawaiians pay, I can't see that solar + battery storage is not a compelling option.
 

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It is not hard to find a typical all-in Ontario power rate at $0.23-0.25 kwh (total power bill divided by kwh consumed), which is what myself and many others were paying when I was living there a few years ago in a variety of different locations, housing types, etc.

Ontario Hydro is on a program of dramatically increasing distribution costs and decreasing the variable cost, because they still have to maintain the infrastructure regardless of when or how much you consume power. Spending a little money is fine, but if you spend a lot of money trying to get a 10-15 year positive ROI without a contracted fixed rate over that term, you may find the ground shifting underneath.
 

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Battery storage. You could keep the oil plants for night-time use, but the cost per kWh has to be appalling. So every drop you don't have to burn is money in the bank. Apparently, the average rate in Hawaii is $0.37/kWh, or $0.50 CAD. Yikes. Makes me feel better about the 95% of my energy consumption that happens at Ontario's offpeak rate at CAD$0.065 (a bit more when you include the variable part of distribution). But my bill has a higher fixed component than variable. This is why I laugh at all the people in Ontario who have been freaking out about our hydro rates, including claims that we have the highest rates in NA. I have no idea how anyone reaches that conclusion, as you can just about name any state and they have higher rates than we do.

At any rate, for what Hawaiians pay, I can't see that solar + battery storage is not a compelling option.
In QC I was last paying 0.06 CAD/kWh which in the summer months cost less than the distribution fee of 0.4 CAD/day. States now we're talking 0.11 USD/kWh (nearly triple) and delivery charge of 0.12 USD/kWh ($5 USD/day in my case or 15x) We have it pretty good in Canada thanks to CFLCo's very generous contract with HQ

Here's a recent example of boomer rationale against solar in the states. The same people also freak out about cell towers

 

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^ Same people are of course perfectly content with gasoline stations on every corner, venting fumes contributing to air pollution, with toxic run-off and obvious risk of explosion. They are fear mongering about lithium ion battery fires, hilarious! Of course, they also sleep with their iPhone on their nightstand.
 

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For context, my hydro bill is usually around $45/month, maybe $60 with the AC chugging all night. I think the fixed component is around $27 (for the privilege of a grid connection). It all seems remarkably cheap to me, especially when I hear of people in California with $300 electric bills.
 

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My hydro bill in QC was like $50/month in the summer. So far my first bills in the States have been over $350 CAD/month. That doesn't include nat gas that costs about $25/month distribution for the stove. I have since added a smart thermostat and LED lights that the State sold heavily discounted. I imagine however the nat gas heat will do better in the winter compared to using baseboard heat in QC
 

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Here's a recent example of boomer rationale against solar in the states. The same people also freak out about cell towers
These are just people who don't want a power plant being built next door. They'll throw any argument against the wall to see what sticks. I can't fault them for that. I don't see why you need to insult older people or how you know they're all of that age.

ltr
 

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If you have a problem with generalizing boomers then you can't generalize millennials either

First the boomers were climate change deniers, then they were skeptics, and now they are just delaying progressive adaptation

They will all be dead or senile before they have to admit to their ignorance
 

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I recently read an article (either NYT or ?) where a developing fashionable trend is for millenials to now use the term 'boomer' in a derogatory manner. Most Gen-Xers know better than that because they are wise to what the boomer generation provided in terms of technological change and standard of living increases, notwithstanding some environmental issues, but at least some millenials don't yet have the maturity to understand that, or their own hypocrisy. Maturity will come as they raise their families and recognize utopia does not come free, and hypocrisy does nothing for credibility. M3s, you really are not doing yourself a favour by denigrating everyone and anyone that was born between 1945 and 1964. It is not even playing well with Gen-Xers. They know hypocrisy when they see it too.
 
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