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I wonder if many of them, once they actually do retire early, will find themselves bored and go work again.
I can't understand how anyone could ever get bored.

I mean, I know people do. But it just seems like it would never be a possibility for me to get bored. I can't find ENOUGH TIME to do things. I have to cross things off I'll never be able to do just because time doesn't allow for it!
 

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I wonder if many of them, once they actually do retire early, will find themselves bored and go work again.
Same comment as @KaeJS

Give me even 10 lives living 100 years each without ever working and I still wouldn't get bored.

People who get bored with their free time doesn't understand what it is to live. Or have absolutely no curiosity and openness to new interests, knowledge, people, locations, cultures, etc.
 
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It's why I believe so much in FIRE. I want the time do to everything and anythign I want. And not just the time, but the physical and mental energy. Work takes most of that away from me. To be fair, work has also made me a better human being, but I find it has diminishing returns. At some point you need to move on and do better things with your life.
 

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It's why I believe so much in FIRE. I want the time do to everything and anythign I want. And not just the time, but the physical and mental energy.
Ok, then why not work 4 days a week instead so you can have more free time while you are young and full of energy? It would also help your mental health and physical health. Why retire early? Why not take that extra money to have more time now?

I agree way more with people who either shift right away to fewer working hours, or work part time than with people who race for the retirement, as if life started when retirement started. Life is happening here and now, so you need more time here and now.
 

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Ok, then why not work 4 days a week instead so you can have more free time while you are young and full of energy? It would also help your mental health and physical health. Why retire early? Why not take that extra money to have more time now?

I agree way more with people who either shift right away to fewer working hours, or work part time than with people who race for the retirement, as if life started when retirement started. Life is happening here and now, so you need more time here and now.
This is a very solid point.

Unfortunately, a lot of jobs don't allow for this flexibility. I like the idea that some companies are trying a 4 day work week and having good success with it.
 

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Ok, then why not work 4 days a week instead so you can have more free time while you are young and full of energy? It would also help your mental health and physical health. Why retire early? Why not take that extra money to have more time now?
4 days a week doesn't mean you do 4 days worth of work. It means to me that 5 days worth of work needs to be completed within 4 days.
 

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4 days a week doesn't mean you do 4 days worth of work. It means to me that 5 days worth of work needs to be completed within 4 days.
It would also mean missing meetings on your day off and often have to play catch up with coworkers. That kind of arrangement doesn't work for most jobs where team work is required, unless the whole organisation does it.
 

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No but hopefully soon the jobs will become 4-day weeks. In the past, people worked 6-day weeks. Yet here we are today working 5-day weeks.

I agree that working 4 days while most people at your job still work 5 days may lead to some issues, but I've seen colleagues make that deal and they are super happy with it.

Lots of studies say that the benefits of a 4-day week can make you almost as productive as when you worked 5 days, so you don't really have to rush and squeeze more job in fewer days.

People also complain having too many meetings and some do a 1-day no meeting per week. No issue if that's your day off.
 

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4 days a week doesn't mean you do 4 days worth of work. It means to me that 5 days worth of work needs to be completed within 4 days.
That's the entire premise behind the book The 4 hour week.

Honestly watching organizations, good management can do a lot to move to more efficient work.

Back in my early career everyone had to take an effective meetings course (it was short), and if people violated the rules, it was expected to be raised as an issue.

So we always had stuff like.
1. Agendas and decisions to be made.
2. Ideally most background data provided in advance etc.

Almost no organizations do that.
The one REALLY easy thing to do in a meeting, is to set the time of the next meeting while everyone is in there.

I was shocked how many groups did meetings without agendas, or without providing background info in advance, or people not reading the background info.
Then the "we'll meet in month", then in a month the scramble to find time.

Those types of problems are a management failure.

The best thing about one place was that the meetings were planned so well, we just had department reps go through and basically checklist the agenda, 80% of the people who did the work for the meeting didn't even have to show up. FYI, the reps weren't necessarily managers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #950 ·
I also kind find it annoying and somewhat disingenuous when FIRE talkers are dependent on side hustles, blog income, book sales, etc.
Very true. One of my coworkers was in the news a few years ago when he decided to retire at age 30, or maybe it was 35. I can't remember the details.

The article made it sound like the couple had done FIRE and completely retired. But in fact, they still had minor sources of income through side hussles. Another great example is Mr Money Mustache himself, who has published some rather popular books (and he's been at conferences too, so I'm sure he's paid to appear).

Kind of ironic actually, because FIRE people may think of Mr Money Mustache as a template for retiring early, but I would argue he isn't retired. He's not just living off his portfolio... he's still working!
 

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Discussion Starter · #951 ·
Ok, then why not work 4 days a week instead so you can have more free time while you are young and full of energy?
Before I quit my full time job, I went to my employer with exactly this request. I had asked to work either 3 or 4 days a week (based on total hours in a month). At the time I decided that I need more leisure time so that I can improve my health, get exercise, and see my friends & family.

For a while, they let me do it (using unpaid time off) and this was an absolutely amazing time for me. I can't explain how happy I was. My income was still rather high, but I also had free time. For example, I went skiing in the middle of the week. Or I stayed in Las Vegas for a week, doing a bit of work from my laptop by the pool.

I loved that setup of about 60% to 80% workload. But then, management crunched some numbers and determined the company can't allow this. So they told me I can't do that any more.

That's when I quit.
 

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Nancy Pelosi is loading up with millions in GOOG, DIS, RBLX, MU options

What does she know? Lockdown 2.0? More easy money?

The proverbial sky is falling and she's betting on youtube, cartoons and video games
Nancy Insider Pelosi just made $600k on NVDA trade in a month
 

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I can't understand how anyone could ever get bored.

I mean, I know people do. But it just seems like it would never be a possibility for me to get bored. I can't find ENOUGH TIME to do things. I have to cross things off I'll never be able to do just because time doesn't allow for it!
Agreed ... though from observation, a sole focus on work without developing other interests seems to be a key driver for "I'm bored in retirement ... back to work I go".


Cheers
 

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Ok, then why not work 4 days a week instead so you can have more free time while you are young and full of energy? It would also help your mental health and physical health. Why retire early? Why not take that extra money to have more time now?
Likely the same reason why WFH was viable for me for three decades plus but lightly used.

Too long WFH without a big project or other acceptable justification would result in the manager ignoring what was being accomplished, panic that WFH was hiding that I was goofing off and demand I be back in the office.

I always found it ironic as it was easier to goof off at work than WFH. :rolleyes:


There's the case the employee can make, the metrics the employee can prove it works with but ultimately, if the levels of management are steeped in something else - they'll limit or kill it.


Cheers
 

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There's the case the employee can make, the metrics the employee can prove it works with but ultimately, if the levels of management are steeped in something else - they'll limit or kill it.
I find ironic that at my job, one of my colleagues asked for 4-day workweek and the management panicked as if it was unacceptable to allow it. They ended-up agreeing given the family situation she exposed, but with a drop in salary as they would not even allow her to do all of her hours within those 4 days. Here comes the irony: many of my colleagues are assigned to projects where they don't even have to work 37.5h to reach their goals, their managers are aware and the company has nothing else to give them. Some could work only 4 days, 3 days or even only 2 days a week. Yet those people have their full pay for their "presence". I've even seen people with no projects for months but still on the payroll because of labour shortage as they want to make sure they have people available when they end up getting new projects.
 

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Discussion Starter · #957 ·
I've even seen people with no projects for months but still on the payroll because of labour shortage as they want to make sure they have people available when they end up getting new projects.
This is a very legit concern of management. My old employer lost people (and also laid off) during the pandemic, but now is extremely under-staffed and desperate for people. It actually is preventing them from earning income.

So there's definitely value in keeping staff ready to go, even if they are idle at the moment. You can't always find people the moment you need them.
 

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Likely the same reason why WFH was viable for me for three decades plus but lightly used.

Too long WFH without a big project or other acceptable justification would result in the manager ignoring what was being accomplished, panic that WFH was hiding that I was goofing off and demand I be back in the office.

I always found it ironic as it was easier to goof off at work than WFH. :rolleyes:

There's the case the employee can make, the metrics the employee can prove it works with but ultimately, if the levels of management are steeped in something else - they'll limit or kill it.
Read an article that managers don't like WFH because it makes them irrelevant

With the right people I believe you could cut out a lot of manager and easily do a blend of WFH and on site

Some work is just more efficient without office distractions
 

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Discussion Starter · #959 ·
Read an article that managers don't like WFH because it makes them irrelevant

With the right people I believe you could cut out a lot of manager and easily do a blend of WFH and on site

Some work is just more efficient without office distractions
Depends a lot on the type of work. I've been doing (entirely remote) work as a Project Manager and I can also tell you that many people do need some guidance and management, even if it's virtual. I'm working with a very sharp guy, he's absolutely brilliant, but does need some direction. If he was left entirely on his own without any checks on timelines, priorities, etc he wouldn't be very efficient.

On the other hand, the "management" sector has ballooned ever since the 1980s and many big companies now have layers upon layers of managers who do very little. They have become a power structure which grasp onto power and find ways to make themselves relevant.
 

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Read an article that managers don't like WFH because it makes them irrelevant
On the other hand, the "management" sector has ballooned ever since the 1980s and many big companies now have layers upon layers of managers who do very little. They have become a power structure which grasp onto power and find ways to make themselves relevant.
Agreed and even before WFH there is much irrelevant mid-managers. Bullsh*t jobs.

I used to work in small organizations where people would have multiple hats and had to be polyvalent. Now I work in a big organization and there's about 6 different types of managers who overview a project consisting of a team of... 6 people. It would not require more than 2 and I'm being very generous.

Some work is just more efficient without office distractions
My wife has to go back to the office a few days a week. When she WFH, she starts at 8h and stops at 17h, she's highly focused and efficient. When she goes at the office, she gets there at 9h, leaves at 16h, she wastes lots of time trying to get the secured connection because the installations at her office are so bad, then she has a hard time focusing with all the noise from the people in the open space who all end up being in videoconferences all day long... with the people who WFH.
 
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