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...There are 2 things holding back electric cars in Canada, one is that the batteries do not work well when cold, and can be ruined if allowed to freeze. The other is that a decent heater uses up huge amounts of energy.
I have never seen any studies but wouldn't AC required in the south eat up electricity just like heaters? I know cars in Mexico City need heaters as well as AC.
 

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I have never seen any studies but wouldn't AC required in the south eat up electricity just like heaters? I know cars in Mexico City need heaters as well as AC.
I think Rusty was referring to battery heaters that turn on when you plug in the car.

As far as A/C requiring as much power as a cabin heater, I would say not. The cabin heater is like a toaster and draws quite a bit of power compared to an electric motor required to run an A/C compressor.

Just a guess.

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Actually i think Garbage trucks are the even better application. The one man crew is "hammer gas, hammer brake, idle"
Also their distance till full is short.
That's the idea electric application.

But I don't know who's doing that, plus investments in garbage handling aren't cool
Certainly the start/stop (regenerative braking) efficiency would be excellent but those trucks have no time to stop and re-charge during the day (unlike transit buses). It is a long day for the trucks around here.... 7am to 5pm and sometimes longer without a stop, except obvious driver pit stops and then lunch where a partial re-charge would be possible. The contractors can't afford to not have the trucks on the road the entire day.
 

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Certainly the start/stop (regenerative braking) efficiency would be excellent but those trucks have no time to stop and re-charge during the day (unlike transit buses). It is a long day for the trucks around here.... 7am to 5pm and sometimes longer without a stop, except obvious driver pit stops and then lunch where a partial re-charge would be possible. The contractors can't afford to not have the trucks on the road the entire day.
But they don't actually go that far.
 

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But they don't actually go that far.
I suppose only a few hundred kms each day, including 5-8 or so 20km round trips to the landfill. Lots of energy used to lift all those bins and run the compactor too.You might be surprised how much energy they use. Might be interesting to get some insight from waste disposal companies themselves.
 

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For the people who think EVs don't work in the cold, maybe consider that Norway has a huge % of their market in EVs. Leaving aside subsidies, they clearly work well enough that people are willing to rely on them.
 

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I think Rusty was referring to battery heaters that turn on when you plug in the car.

As far as A/C requiring as much power as a cabin heater, I would say not. The cabin heater is like a toaster and draws quite a bit of power compared to an electric motor required to run an A/C compressor.

Just a guess.

ltr
Some cabin heaters are resistive. Others are heat pumps used for heating. Model Y was the first Tesla model to have a heat pump, and it is expected to have much improved cold-weather performance. It was just released at the tail end of winter so not a lot of public testing available yet. It also harvests heat from the motors and battery.
 

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I suppose only a few hundred kms each day, including 5-8 or so 20km round trips to the landfill. Lots of energy used to lift all those bins and run the compactor too.You might be surprised how much energy they use. Might be interesting to get some insight from waste disposal companies themselves.
I'm thinking the residential pickups, not the commercial ones.

I was thinking many round trips, but apparently some trucks do a several hundred houses before dumping, so they might not get as much.

I think the business case is there or almost there.
Once it offers a good ROI, it should be like a damn breaking.


I'm curious which companies are working on this, or actually the leaders.
I did a search and it seems to be a popular idea.
 

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You can get a lot of the benefit with hybrid drivetrains, since the gain is mostly in regenerative braking. They will eventually be fully electrified but that is more a cost savings of electricity vs diesel/nat gas play.
 

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I'm thinking the residential pickups, not the commercial ones.
So am I thinking residential (municipal) as in Environmental 360 in Central Okanagan Lots of energy likely dissipated in the lift and compactor. This is the style of truck I see in most jurisdictions. Some are actually bigger (longer).

Added: One such example Nikola Electric talks about an impressive 150 mile range. Forget the reference to 1200 cans.... No modern municipality uses labour intensive 'cans' any more. Waste Connections looks like they will test Canadian manufactured examples as well.
 

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Added: One such example Nikola Electric talks about an impressive 150 mile range. Forget the reference to 1200 cans.... No modern municipality uses labour intensive 'cans' any more. Waste Connections looks like they will test Canadian manufactured examples as well.
No modern municipality uses labour intensive 'cans' any more << what do you mean?

I know some cities have automated trucks, but many cities, London for instance, are still using all sorts of containers.
not sure if the trucks have a lift assist.
 

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Nikola is not really worth paying attention to. The company is surrounded with accusations of fraud, and their CEO just resigned.
 

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No modern municipality uses labour intensive 'cans' any more << what do you mean?

I know some cities have automated trucks, but many cities, London for instance, are still using all sorts of containers.
not sure if the trucks have a lift assist.
The use of manually handled 'cans' still dumped by a human into the back of a truck will have to change sooner rather than later to fully automated handling in the municipalities that still have them. We have had automated pickup for 15 years or more, both when I lived in Calgary, and now in the Okanagan. Black carts (household waste), Blue carts (recycling) and Green carts (yard waste). What is collected in what cart varies by municipality.

I cannot imagine a municipal waste management company going to 'new' electric trucks based on 20th century garbage pickup systems. They will need to be the automated kind per the first link I provided in post #71.

Pic of Cart for Automated Handling
 

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Nikola is not really worth paying attention to. The company is surrounded with accusations of fraud, and their CEO just resigned.
Those were my thoughts, and that's why I see the news releases, but then the ownership and history of a LOT of these companies is questionable.
 

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Those were my thoughts, and that's why I see the news releases, but then the ownership and history of a LOT of these companies is questionable.
There will eventually be a number of players pursuing this business. Daimler and Volvo are two examples in the 'truck' market.
 

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The use of manually handled 'cans' still dumped by a human into the back of a truck will have to change sooner rather than later to fully automated handling in the municipalities that still have them.
Ottawa still has manual garbage pickup where citizens are allowed to have any type of can or bag or bin they choose. The guy just heaves the stuff into the back of the truck.

They started a green bin program many years ago that was supposed to be automated, and everyone has the fancy pickup-able bin, but they still just dump it manually into the truck.

Automated handling? Doesn't that require the homeowner to place the bin "just so" that the machine can grab it. Doesn't sound like that would work.

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Ottawa still has manual garbage pickup where citizens are allowed to have any type of can or bag or bin they choose. The guy just heaves the stuff into the back of the truck.

They started a green bin program many years ago that was supposed to be automated, and everyone has the fancy pickup-able bin, but they still just dump it manually into the truck.

Automated handling? Doesn't that require the homeowner to place the bin "just so" that the machine can grab it. Doesn't sound like that would work.

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OMG....can't believe that is still the case!!!

The pick up mechanism has quite a bit of latitude in 3 directions to reach and grab the sides of the cart. Can reach between parked cars at the curb if necessary.

The required criteria is to have the front of the cart facing the street on the pavement by the curb. It is also requested to have 18 inches between carts but I've seen them grab carts with less than 12 inches between carts. The lift mechanism must work well because in streets with alleys, I've seen carts are in all sorts of odd positions. If it is clearly so out of whack that the mechanism can't grab it, then it gets left and the homeowner knows better for the following week.
 

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Automated handling? Doesn't that require the homeowner to place the bin "just so" that the machine can grab it. Doesn't sound like that would work.
Works pretty well everywhere they implement it.
It doesn't really need to be "just so", think of the logging equipment that picks up trees for harvesting, nature puts them at all sorts of weird and wonderful orientations.
It just means the garbage man needs to be more of an equipment operator than a mini-hulk.
 

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It just means the garbage man needs to be more of an equipment operator than a mini-hulk.
Herein lies the problem. The preferred method in Ottawa is to dump the green bin, blue bin, black bin, and garbage manually into the truck and then throw the bins as far as you can to ensure they get smashed and cracked and then you have to order new ones from the city.

"requested to have 18 inches between carts"...... Yeah, that just isn't about to happen in Ottawa I'm afraid. That may work in sophisticated communities, but not in Ottawa. Not a chance.

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