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Let's see, the study was about elderly patients, and you use that as proof that blacks in general are not following the treatment plan. Was that what you were trying to say? If not, then why not just state that this study only applies to elderly patients?

They included this in the paper:

Health care providers should adopt a culturally sensitive, patient-centered approach to identifying and addressing barriers to adherence.

You realize that the paper is pushing the fact that there needs to be positive interaction between the patient and the health care provider to have a positive outcome, whereas the paper that I had presented before pointed out that blacks have had more negative interactions? So what is your point out of this? Mine is that health care providers should provide more understanding rather than just ignore what is being presented as symptoms.

BTW no comments about the lack of COVID testing?
I did not make that claim that this was generally applicable across age groups.
The study literally says that it is only applicable to that age group.
This is the second time you're asserting the exact same claim neither I, nor the study made.

Interesting that you pulled out the item that health care providers should have different approaches, and consider patient culture in their interactions. It's almost like they're saying you can't simply treat everyone the same.
That's actually my point, different populations need to be treated differently. However that isn't implicit biased, it's simply proper patient centered care. If you get a patient with elevated hCG, it suggests dramatically different medical conditions.

So what is it, purposeful culturally sensitive patient centered care, or implicit (ie unconsious) bias?

My position is that health care providers should provide proper patient centered care, and when they do, it isn't necessarily due to implicit bias. In light of the fact that they get equivalent outcomes, according to your study, I'd say it is most likely the former.

I'm not going to comment on anecdotal stories, there are lots of them, from every perspective. They don't prove systematic problems. If you had aggregate data showing a problem, we could discuss. But that data doesn't seem to exist.

Finally if there was such pervasive, and systematic racism and implicit bias, why can't you seem to find much evidence of it?
 

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My historical view of American media .,...

The United States began in smallpox-infected blankets and mountains of Native American scalps-for-bounty, and remains true to its genocidal imperatives. People are living in concentration camps that are euphemistically referred to as Indian reservations.

Books have even been written about how crack cocaine was introduced into the black community through the CIA. More than a million Africans are now lumped up in prison?

At the same time that Hitler was killing off the prominent capitalists and their friends in Germany, the U.S. capitalists were practicing eugenics (Human Betterment Foundation), enforcing Jim Crow Laws, using Zyklon-B for executions, sterilizations by force, experimentation within mental homes and using humans as medical guinea pigs, and were continuing the holocaust against the North American Indians,

And, let us not forget what happened after World War II and the holocaust ....

Following the Hitler Trip and the horrible experiences of the Jews, many left Europe and invested heavily into media and Hollywood.

Many, many, of the same Jewish Folks who fled Europe during Hitler's rampage arrived in Hollywood and New York, and set up film studios. Hollywood financed, produced and distributed 90 percent of U.S. media in the early television days. (The ADL would prefer people say that many executives in the industry "happen to be Jewish" at the time.)

It was some of these people who "Fabricated" American history on film. Some of the same people who had just experienced and fled from the discrimination, stereotyping and racism by Hitler, only to commit the identical crime in America .... and making films about black and native indians in North America.

The American media stereotyped the blacks and First Nations People just like Joseph Goebbels had done to the Jewish Folks in Hitler's Germany.

Hollywood committed huge harm to Aboriginals and Blacks.

They were said to be inhuman and a bunch of savages.

During the 1940's onward, it was Hollywood which fed us images of the First Nations People as being untrustworthy savages and who spoke with a forked-tongue.

It was Hollywood who financed and produced the propaganda about African Americans being inhuman and a criminal element. The stereotyping of minority groups has me with my heart beating quicker when a large black man is walking behind me.

Have you ever seen a "scheming Jew" in a Hollywood movie?

".... there's a whole army of actors like Joe Pesce, that serve the niche of playing Italian Mafiosi. But no actors playing the scheming Jew because that is not a Hollywood Role. ..... The role of the scheming, subversive, money-loving Jew is just not allowed ...."

".... As a proud Jew, I want America to know about our accomplishment. Yes, we control Hollywood. Without us, you'd be flipping between "The 700 Club" and "Davey and Goliath" on TV all day...."

There has been enough myth, duplicity, and shame for everyone.

While our media in North America were screaming about how bad things were in Europe during the war years, this is what was happening in the background .........

In 1948, with Hitler dead less then 2 years, .... At the very heart of the newly formed country of Israel, .... at the highest levels of government, .... within the Israeli cabinet, the Jewish folks were actually talking about committing a holocaust against the Arabs and which is the exact same crimes as Hitler was being chastised for.

“We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.”
–-David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978--
--Israel Koenig, advisor to the Israeli Knesset, The Koenig Memorandum (Al Hamishmar newspaper, September 7, 1976)--

"The compulsory transfer of Arabs from the proposed Jewish State could give us something we never had ... Any doubt on our part about the necessity of the transfer ... may lose us an historic opportunity."
--David Ben-Gurion, 1937--

In 1934, according to published statistics, nearly half of those holding the most senior posts in Stalin's government and the Soviet security apparatuses and to carry out the holocaust against Ukraine were of Jewish origin.
Lazar Kaganovitch, the Soviet Eichmann ....
 

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I did not make that claim that this was generally applicable across age groups.
The study literally says that it is only applicable to that age group.
This is the second time you're asserting the exact same claim neither I, nor the study made.

Interesting that you pulled out the item that health care providers should have different approaches, and consider patient culture in their interactions. It's almost like they're saying you can't simply treat everyone the same.
That's actually my point, different populations need to be treated differently. However that isn't implicit biased, it's simply proper patient centered care. If you get a patient with elevated hCG, it suggests dramatically different medical conditions.

So what is it, purposeful culturally sensitive patient centered care, or implicit (ie unconsious) bias?

My position is that health care providers should provide proper patient centered care, and when they do, it isn't necessarily due to implicit bias. In light of the fact that they get equivalent outcomes, according to your study, I'd say it is most likely the former.

I'm not going to comment on anecdotal stories, there are lots of them, from every perspective. They don't prove systematic problems. If you had aggregate data showing a problem, we could discuss. But that data doesn't seem to exist.

Finally if there was such pervasive, and systematic racism and implicit bias, why can't you seem to find much evidence of it?
Here's the thing. The point in the original piece that I linked talked about negative interactions. In other words, offering WORSE care. How is that better?
 

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Here's the thing. The point in the original piece that I linked talked about negative interactions. In other words, offering WORSE care. How is that better?
I never said it was "better".
The studies aren't clear that there is a significant difference in outcome.

I'm also not clear how they determined it was implicit bias, they touch on a number of behavioral differences between populations, but never explain how they addressed this, and how accounting for differences in the populations is necessarily implicit bias as opposed to simply patient centric care.

Remember I linked to a data that corrected for a wide number of factors, but still found different behaviours.
Maybe different people behave differently?

Maybe the problem isn't racism, maybe we just need to do better treating people fairly irrespective of any number of characteristics?
 

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I never said it was "better".
The studies aren't clear that there is a significant difference in outcome.

I'm also not clear how they determined it was implicit bias, they touch on a number of behavioral differences between populations, but never explain how they addressed this, and how accounting for differences in the populations is necessarily implicit bias as opposed to simply patient centric care.

Remember I linked to a data that corrected for a wide number of factors, but still found different behaviours.
Maybe different people behave differently?

Maybe the problem isn't racism, maybe we just need to do better treating people fairly irrespective of any number of characteristics?
Here's the thing, everyone has some sort of bias. It's built upon personal experience, and is inherent to human nature, and animals for that matter. Basically, from an evolutionary perspective, people will generate heuristics to quickly react to a situation: fight or flight. These days the stakes usually aren't life or death, but for police officers it can be.

For example, you mention the study about difference of adherence to medical treatment. If the health care provider thinks that the person isn't going to adhere to the treatment plan, perhaps they figure they're not going to waste their time so they are curt and don't spend the appropriate time to ensure they understand why it's important.

Likewise, when you are driving, and someone in a fancy sports car cuts you off, are you going to assume that the driver is a jerk, or are you going to assume that they have an emergency and need to get to the hospital?
 

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Here's the thing, everyone has some sort of bias. It's built upon personal experience, and is inherent to human nature, and animals for that matter. Basically, from an evolutionary perspective, people will generate heuristics to quickly react to a situation: fight or flight. These days the stakes usually aren't life or death, but for police officers it can be.

For example, you mention the study about difference of adherence to medical treatment. If the health care provider thinks that the person isn't going to adhere to the treatment plan, perhaps they figure they're not going to waste their time so they are curt and don't spend the appropriate time to ensure they understand why it's important.

Likewise, when you are driving, and someone in a fancy sports car cuts you off, are you going to assume that the driver is a jerk, or are you going to assume that they have an emergency and need to get to the hospital?
If this was a statistically significant problem, you'd expect the data to show it.
Note I'm not saying there are not problems at the individual level, which there are, but to claim a systematic problem, you need to provide data.

Actually if a patient self reports to the doctor that they are unlikely to follow the treatment plan, I expect the doctor to adjust their interaction accordingly.

If someone cuts me off in a fancy sports car, luxury SUV, beater, or Minivan I assume they're an ***hole, because they are driving like one.
 

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Patient man bgc_fan. One can only have so many questions and answers deflected or taken out of context.

I don't always agree with The Patriot Act, but this is an interesting dig into current state of "the press" and more broadly our broken economic system.

 

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The media likes to talk about criminal laws and investigations and legalities.
A nation of laws.

The American System is really a corporation and corporations are ruled by Regulations and not so much criminal law.

The media tells us that criminal law is what is making the protesters angry.

Not inequality.

You can "Reform" criminal law but yuh can't "Reform" inequality.

The press needs to talk about "Regulations" and how the Ruling Class manages to accumulate such massive wealth while manipulating the "Regulations".

That is the Reform which is needed.
 

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It looks to me that the military is doing it's best to appear friendly and honourable.
They are all over TV-Land trying to look like they really don't want to take over the city streets.

Never mind that they are getting the citizenry to accept Martial Law ater the upcoming election.

Shake the Money Tree for another 20 Trillion dollars to carry the U.S. Capitalist System for the next 6 months minimum ......... Or let the empire collapse.
 

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They say that Black People and Latino's are the poorest in the country.
And I then have to admit that many-many Blacks and Latino's are poor.
When I see blacks and Latino's protesting, I see "Poor People" who happen to be Black or Latino.
The press keeps talking "Black": or "Latino" the term or description being "Race".
Why can't they just say "Poor People"?

The Ruling Class do not want to talk Class Warfare.
It is easier to have a conversation about racism then it is to talk about wealth inequality.
The media will never call this protest a "Poor Protest".
Only Communist Social governments have Poor People.
Media describes the protest as black and latino and young people ....... Not Poor People.
They are wanting to have voter attention dealing with racism and not Wall Street Gangsters and other Economic Terrorists.
 

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The press keeps talking "Black": or "Latino" the term or description being "Race".
Why can't they just say "Poor People"?
Because making it about race pushes their agenda.
We know the solution to poverty, have for decades, but the poverty industry, and rulers benefit, so they push poverty traps.

Read
WEALTH, POVERTY AND POLITICS by Thomas Sowell.
 

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Discussion Starter #154
It is not all about race, though race is a factor. I think more importantly, policing in the US is broken with bad training, legal impunity, civil asset forfeiture, etc. And the US is very unequal with a degree of intergenerational poverty. It is not the land of opportunity--it has less equality of opportunity than historically class-bound countries like the UK.
 

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Yuh know ..... Over the years I have viewed many news clips showing crowds stuffing themselves into a subway car.

Honestly; if some person reading this can link me to video content of a rush hour in Toronto as an example, I could like a link.

Is it just me? I was thinking that I have not seen recent film with people riding the subway at what used to be Rush Hour.

Seems the media does not want to "Practically" talk about what Rush Hour is going to look like.

The media spends all day ranting about what we are allowed to do. (Sort of like telling us how long are we allowed out for recess?)

I think they need to tell us what the media know to be our future.

Distancing guidlines of just 12 inches causes huge problems with Subway capacity. Giving every passenger a 12 inch envelope of safety will mean huge delays in subway services.

I think that if city people viewed a news clip of people needing to stand at least 12 inches (Not six feet but rather just one foot distancing) is going to really shock the viewers.

Economic costs are immense. Unimaginable.

All the Money People must know or recognize these facts.

As an investor, I would not be spending a dime for action being associated with the downtown core of any city with more than 2 million population.

I just can't imagine how any country on the face of this universe walks away from this virus event. The very heart of every country, the largess of a country are it's cities.

I think that Billy Gates and Buffet and The Clowns are begging the Pension Funds to buy the stock and are cashing out. And the Federal Reserve is backing the play and backing every transaction.

This problem might well be easily solved if a half million young people were hired for a Test / Trace.

Hire a private person like Mayor Bloomberg and have him in charge of all the data.

Nobdoy can legally demand to see the data because it is private information and Milke Bloomberg holds the patent on the information.

If you control the data, you control The Success.

Maybe then I might go downtown and be normal again.

And, God Bless
 

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Yuh know ..... Over the years I have viewed many news clips showing crowds stuffing themselves into a subway car.

As an investor, I would not be spending a dime for action being associated with the downtown core of any city with more than 2 million population.
You realize the ruling class is trying to take our cars away and stuff us into cities, totally dependant on government for every aspect of our survivial?
 

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You realize the ruling class is trying to take our cars away and stuff us into cities, totally dependant on government for every aspect of our survivial?
I am not into stuff like the government is trying to take our cars away.

I am angry that the Ruling Class is using climate change to make me feel guilty enough to fit me into a sardine can on the 401.

The Rich Folks should need to shut down the electric heating components of the swimming pools before I need to crawl into a sardine can on the Gardner Expressway.

Rich Folks tourist destinations should be much-much taxed because a single flight of a 747 would create 100 thousand years worth of my car CO2 Emmissions.

I think that the Rich Folks are the people who should wear the most shame and pay huge taxes when reviewing individual carbon footprints.
 

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Discussion Starter #158
Yes, urbanization is a conspiracy, and not a consequence of greater productivity of being close to other firms, customers, etc.

It's amazing that this conspiracy has covered every country on earth and for thousands of years of human history.
 

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Yes, urbanization is a conspiracy, and not a consequence of greater productivity of being close to other firms, customers, etc.

It's amazing that this conspiracy has covered every country on earth and for thousands of years of human history.
I'm not saying there is a city conspiracy.
I'm saying that left wing governments see an opportunity to make people totally dependant on them for the necessities of life. Then they think they'll have those votes locked up.

Get enough people into public housing, nobody will ever vote to slash it.
As it is, there is no interest into simply fixing the rental laws.
Tax away peoples cars, everyone will vote for public transit.

If people think they need big government, they'll continue to vote for it.
 
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