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Discussion Starter #1
It seems there are no rules any longer when it comes to press. We have numerous examples in the last week of members of the press being assaulted by police despite identifying themselves as press. A photojournalist who was permanently blinded. CNN crew being rounded up and arrested without justification. I know it is a popular pastime to hate the press among some here, but there is a reason why freedom of the press is a fundamental right in liberal democracies and one of the first things to go when they slide into totalitarianism. This should be very concerning.
 

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^ Yes it does according to Zuckerberg or whichever conglomerate who can benefits or be catered to:

Civil rights leaders say they're 'disappointed and stunned' after call with Facebook's Zuckerberg and Sandberg
... In posts on Twitter and Facebook on Friday, Trump addressed protests over the killing of George Floyd while in police custody, saying, “Any difficulty and we will assume control but, when the looting starts, the shooting starts.” While Twitter flagged the tweet with a warning that it violates the company’s rules about “glorifying violence,” Facebook took no action.

Trump and Zuckerberg had a productive call on Friday, people on both sides of the matter told Axios. CNBC confirmed the call. In a Facebook post that day, Zuckerberg said he personally has “a visceral negative reaction to this kind of divisive and inflammatory rhetoric” but defended the decision to maintain the post. ...
... the irony.
 

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Just as in Canada there is an increasing amount of consolidation and corporate control of the media. Not just the press.
 

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It seems there are no rules any longer when it comes to press. We have numerous examples in the last week of members of the press being assaulted by police despite identifying themselves as press. A photojournalist who was permanently blinded. CNN crew being rounded up and arrested without justification. I know it is a popular pastime to hate the press among some here, but there is a reason why freedom of the press is a fundamental right in liberal democracies and one of the first things to go when they slide into totalitarianism. This should be very concerning.
In terms of press freedom - it's so hard to tell for certain because we are witnessing an unprecedented scenario where social media plays a larger role than most people realize. Whether anything is "true" or "false" is almost impossible to tell nowadays because of how you can just decide to frame the narrative in any way you want. Although I do believe Canada is much better than the US with media transparency..
 

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I pity America. It used to be a beacon to the world and now it is a crumbling empire that other countries mock.
 

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I was born in Canada (1948) and I became intensely interested with American media because 90% of media originated in America and expressed the American view concerning world events,

Our local library was chocked full of American media because the complete mining town was owned and operated by the Americans.

I used to listen to all the late night talk shows with Larry King and Tom Snyder.
The American Government had Voice of America and Radio Liberty or Radio Free Europe as well.
It amuses me today that the U.S. bad-mouths Russia for financing a media station inside America.
America has been propagandizing for the American Government across the universe since time began.

I always thought that this was the best .....

Manufacturing Consent - A Propaganda Model
Excerpt:
Manufacturing Consent
-- Propaganda Model
-- Conclusions
By Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky
1988

Media is just a propaganda arm of government.

The CIA and the Media
By Carl Bernstein
Rolling Stone Magazine
October 20, 1977
http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Operation_Mockingbird

Refusing to buy The Wall Street Journal, I sometimes sneak a look at copies that are left behind by other people.
So it was last month when a friendly couple dumped their paper on the train seat opposite me. And bingo, it was as bad as ever. "Defence Officials Predict Slow Afghan Progress." And the sourcing for this hardly unexpected headline? "Senior US military officials", "military officials", "a senior US military official", "Obama administration officials", "defence officials", "the senior military official", "military leaders", "the official", "military officials", "the officials", "many in the military", "military officials" (again), "officials" (again), "military officials" (yet again) and "officials" (yet again).
--Robert Fisk, They're trying to sell the Brooklyn Bridge again, October 23, 2010--
Robert Fisk: They're trying to sell the Brooklyn Bridge again

While it is impossible for the media to tell the population what to think, they do tell the public what to think about.
--Media pundit Ben Bagdikian--

"Our job is to give people not what they want, but what we decide they ought to have."
--Richard Salent, former President of CBS News--

"The owners and managers of the press determine which person, which facts, which version of the facts, and which ideas shall reach the public."
--Commission On Freedom Of The Press--

"There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history, in America as an independent press. You know it and I know it. There is not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth; to lie outright; to pervert; to vilify; to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it and what folly is this toasting an independent press? We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
--John Swinton, The former Chief of Staff of the New York Times, in 1953 [the figurative dawn of the national security state]--
http://www.counterpunch.org/gancarski01302003.html

"...financial journalists have developed into a group of incompetent lackeys who were puffed up with self-importance and who had no record of thinking critically...time after time, without the least objection, so many financial reporters seemed content to regurgitate the statements issued by C.E.O.s and stock-market speculators – even when this information was plainly wrong or misleading. These reporters were thus either so naive and gullible that they ought to be packed off to other assignments, or they were people who quite consciously betrayed their journalistic function…
[T]he normal journalistic mandate to undertake critical investigations and objectively report findings to the readers appears not to apply. Instead the most successful rogue is applauded...all remaining trust in journalists as a corps of professionals is being compromised."
--Stieg Larsson, The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, September 01, 2008--
The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo: Larsson, Stieg: 9780670069019: Books - Amazon.ca

We're journalists, but we're American citizens first.
Interview with Tim Russert
Aired May 18, 2005
CNN.com - Transcripts

TIM RUSSERT: [W]hen I talk to senior government officials on the phone, it's my own policy our conversations are confidential. If I want to use anything from that conversation, then I will ask permission.
A note on going 'off the record'

A conversation with Chris Matthews of MSNBC with Chris Matthews (Clip)
Chris Matthews on Charlie Rose makes the astounding pronouncement that he knew full well that what he was saying on the air about our invasion of Iraq was wrong but he didn't want to admit it since he felt it would have been bad for the country. He also takes a cheap shot at bloggers while he's at it.
May 25, 2009
Hardball: Joan Walsh Smacks Down George Bush For His ABC News Interview

Poll: Bullshit Is Most Important Issue For 2008 Voters
For a majority of likely voters, meaningless bullshit will be the most important factor in deciding who they will vote for in 2008.
The Onion
Poll Tracker: Robert Braun
Correspondent Kip O'Leary: ShuttleWorth Research Center
2007
(YouTube Video)
 

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It seems there are no rules any longer when it comes to press. We have numerous examples in the last week of members of the press being assaulted by police despite identifying themselves as press. A photojournalist who was permanently blinded. CNN crew being rounded up and arrested without justification. I know it is a popular pastime to hate the press among some here, but there is a reason why freedom of the press is a fundamental right in liberal democracies and one of the first things to go when they slide into totalitarianism. This should be very concerning.
Freedom of the press doesn't mean you can go anywhere, at any time you wish.

Here in Canada the government is working on a hybrid mix of bribing some media, denying credentials, and even battling in court to control the press, and prevent them from covering events.


However if you're in a restricted area, being press doesn't give you some magical power to be there.
The police/government declared curfews or unlawful assemblies and gave orders to disperse.

These people decided not to comply with a lawful order, and the police enforced the order.
Being part of "The Press" doesn't give you magical powers that place you above the law.

As far as the actions of some police, yeah, there are some brutal video clips out there.
But when you go into a riot, **** happens. Maybe you shouldn't go to riots and illegal demonstrations?
There are several competent journalists who are specifically not going to these riots, because they KNOW they're too dangerous.


This is actually an interesting situation, to all those people protesting police, and systematic problems.
Why do you want to give them more power?
I think governments already have a dangerous level of power, and the ruling elites seem quite happy to abuse it.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
There are several competent journalists who are specifically not going to these riots, because they KNOW they're too dangerous.
This is called 'a chilling effect'. Abuse press so there is no coverage and police can act with impunity. The press go into warzones. They are starting to have to employ similar protections to cover domestic protests. And the police are engaging in tactics that would be considered Geneva Convention violations (aka war crimes) if they performed during a war (deliberately targeting press included) instead of merely a war on American civilians.
 

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This is called 'a chilling effect'. Abuse press so there is no coverage and police can act with impunity. The press go into warzones. They are starting to have to employ similar protections to cover domestic protests. And the police are engaging in tactics that would be considered Geneva Convention violations (aka war crimes) if they performed during a war (deliberately targeting press included) instead of merely a war on American civilians.
few points.

1. Going into the riots is too dangerous. Experienced conflict journalists, including Arab Spring and other events are staying away. Not because of police, but the crowds are also very dangerous.

2. I've heard reports that the police are turning off body cameras etc. But part of the problem is a lack of accountability. The US has problems with this. One advantage of the National Guard is that they have more robust training and supervision.

3. I haven't heard any credible reports that the police are explicitly targeting media. It does happen that the media tend to be stragglers, you get better photo/video that way. In most of the clips I've seen the media didn't move away, and got pushed. So if they're ignoring the orders of the police, they should expect the consequences. I've even heard medics etc were getting the same thing.

4. The Geneva convention argument is not applicable to illegal gatherings. Just like when teachers engage in collective punishment, not applicable. I'm not even sure what clause you feel is being violated.


But to repeat, I generally agree.
1. We should have freedom of press and freedom of expression.
- Our current governments attack on our free press and freedom of expression should have everyone outraged.
2. It is essential that police have proper accountability and supervision to minimize the abuses.
- I think in general Canada is better at this than the US, but we should be trying to do better.


Finally, several of these illegal gatherings are in jurisdictions still under health orders prohibiting gatherings.
I really have no patience for those who don't care about the health and welfare of their fellow citizens.
I'm not calling for the police to start gassing and shooting them, but they definately should have been giving out those $800 tickets. It's selfish self entitled POS like this that are extending this COVID19 lockdown, and they need to knock this $#$# off.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
1. Some, maybe. I know there have been incidents in the past where Antifa has attacked members of the media. There are plenty of media covering the protests as well as riots, even if some are choosing to sit this out. If Hamas did to the media what the police are doing, there would be outrage.

3.


A CNN crew was arrested on while reporting on live TV, despite being fully cooperative with police.



It is not merely a matter of being pushed. Some are beaten with clubs, are fired upon, with one one journalist being permanently blinded in one eye after taking a rubber bullet or bean bag round to the face. Not to mention the wanton use of tear gas, which is also prohibited in war as a war crime, even against peaceful protesters.

4. The point being that American citizens & press are being treated by police in a way that would be illegal in an armed conflict. Geneva conventions do not apply because there is not a war. It does not make the behaviour acceptable (or legal for that matter--the first Amendment protects the press and the right to peacefully assemble).
 

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On a battlefield, the first thing that the U.S. military does is to destroy the media and all media infrastructure as it invades.

All this chatter about the military and with everybody bad-mouthing Trump is a deliberate strategy.

They can not impose military control when the leader of the country only has 50 percent of the electorate. Trump won the presidency because he won the Electoral College. In a sense he was/is illegitimate. The media is helping to arrange the next president obtaining at least 60% support. It will be said that the new president has a mandate.
Martial Law will then be imposed.

A country leader wants to be able to prance around the universe with some legitimacy, especially if martial law is in place.

The press is going to arrange it all. They are going to "Manufacture Our Consent" to introduce Martial Law.

Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media
By Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky
1988
From Wikipedia

All Walmart parking lots will be a military base.
All bakeries will have a contingent of soldiers based outside.

Lets get real ..... we got 40 million unemployed. Nobody is planning anything.
The complete country leadership is arguing who or which party leader is the most racist when they should be discussing about helping people with rent and groceries for at least 6 months. (Probably another year.)

The U.S. Capitalists need to pay at least 30 million Americans about 2 thousand per month each and for the next 6 months or year.

It means the U.S. Dollar as a World Reserve Currency is debased.
China may then respond with offering a currency which is gold backed,
Both China and Russia have partnered up and have a complete financial system already in place. They got the rating agencies and the computer systems to handle it all. China owns the fastest computer in the world, This could be done in a NanoSecond. China set this all up because America was/is abusing the SWIFT financial system with sanctions on countries.

The Ruling Class and the press acting as the propaganda arm of government is just stalling for time ..... just stalling until the cold weather arrives.

The press had no reputation after being found in a coma leading up to the war in Iraq.
The media pundits are using this time to Re-Friend with the pretense that they are on "Our" side. They will be on "Our Side" as they excuse the introduction of Martial Law.

American citizens always believes their own propaganda.

Always realize that most of these protesters are middle class and have just lost the American Dream and they are into Class War now.

Always know and realize that a majority of these middle class protesters are carrying a cellphone. The government has all that info at their disposal.

They have the data for every keystroke you took with your computer. They know where you are (where you have been), and within 15 feet using cell towers.

They got licence plate readers on cop cars and grab all plates of all vehicles.

The car companies will supply all area travel using the car computer.

Bill Gates put a back door on every computer and gave the government the key.

I published a tune in 2013 detailing it all .....

A Song For Edward Snowden
When the Edward Story broke within the media in early June, my twin brother and I (Dot and Calm) instantly recalled a tune by Sting-Police, and rhymed "Every Call You Make". So, we altered the lyrics a bit and the tune was Produced/Arranged/Distributed and website up and running, within a mere 32 days and at an approximate cost of 25 hundred
The video presently featured has an Edward Snowden voice-over as a means of preventing piracy.
July 27, 2013
(YouTube Video)
 

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What a quaint idea. America no longer has a press, period. It has propaganda outlets pushing an agenda. They are free to drive people nuts with partisan bullshit, what they are not free to do is tell the truth.
 

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I am Canadian. So, I don't care at all as to who wins the next election,

I am always thinking strategy ...... I love thinking or guessing the next move. I love the intrigue.
Other than that, I could care less who wins.
In my mind, North American Democracy Political Parties are all bankrupt.

I think that the U.S. supreme court made a horrible decision with the claim that money was speech.

The first thing they do when they get out of bed in the morning is make a call asking for a campaign contribution.
They are so bankrupt that the party membership need to spend about 3 or 4 hours a day making telephone calls.
It's a corporation with the preferred share holders
 

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4. The point being that American citizens & press are being treated by police in a way that would be illegal in an armed conflict. Geneva conventions do not apply because there is not a war. It does not make the behaviour acceptable (or legal for that matter--the first Amendment protects the press and the right to peacefully assemble).
You missed my point that teachers routinely act in a way that would be illegal during a war as well. I actually had a principle that laughed at the idea students had rights in schools.
Freedom of the press means you can write what you want, not that you get to go anywhere and do anything.


The protests were ordered to disperse. You know, for years the right leaning people have been complaining about the restrictions on speech, and the lefties didn't care.
Now that lefties are suddently complaining about their rights. It's still the same darn argument.
When someone says that the government should restrict freedom of speech, or freedom of association to stop voices they don't like, that the government will also shut down their rights as well?

I agree that there is a problem, but if you're going to these riots, particularly if you're untrained, you're an idiot.
It has nothing to do with Antifa, or the police or other elements, participating/being at massive protests and riots during a pandemic is moronic.
 

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All those stories spread by the White House and right wing media that bricks were strategically placed so they could be used in the violence, are proven to be false. They were placed there previously for construction or in baskets to protect property from vehicles, much like posts do.

The White House has removed the posts. Don't believe anything from the White House or right wing media.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
The protests were ordered to disperse. You know, for years the right leaning people have been complaining about the restrictions on speech, and the lefties didn't care.
Perhaps you can accuse others of it, I have been consistent in defending freedom of speech for the right as well (such as all the college campus deplatforming that was/is happening, often through threats of violence).
 

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Discussion Starter #19
All those stories spread by the White House and right wing media that bricks were strategically placed so they could be used in the violence, are proven to be false. They were placed there previously for construction or in baskets to protect property from vehicles, much like posts do.

The White House has removed the posts. Don't believe anything from the White House or right wing media.
Yep, not even so much as a retraction... fake news!
 

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Just listen to what the media is focused upon.

Law - Law - More Law

Don't ever forget that the country is built upon laws.

No mention that the country is managed by finance.

These same laws which are presided over by the Supreme Court and which allowed these societal inequalities to occur and called it legal.

The press has chosen to ignore Finance ..... It is all about law and order.

The trivia details about 1st degree and 12th degree, but no details about how many laws were abused by the upper class to "Legally" get a debt jubilee and get bailed out.

Oh! The bailouts in 2007 and again today were both legal.


For nine years between 1972 and the end of 1981, Chief Justice William Rehnquist consumed great quantities of the potent sedative-hypnotic Placidyl.
The standard dose for adults is 500 milligrams, taken at bedtime. Rehnquist was taking 1,500 milligrams a day.
One doctor said Rehnquist thought he heard voices outside his hospital room plotting against him and had "bizarre ideas and outrageous thoughts," including imagining "a CIA plot against him" and "seeming to see the design patterns on the hospital curtains change configuration."

Chief Justice Roberts was very involved with providing assistance to Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris in the Florida recount against Al Gore. He was one of the people slamming on the window in the election office demanding no recount as well.

Three years later, George Bush nomintated him to the Supreme Court.
 
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