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Our township voted to waive property tax interest and penalties for the remainder of 2020 for those who fall behind.

historically 91% of property owners pay their taxes in our town....this fell to 90% in Q2.
 

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sags...the concept is silly. Have you ever looked at the consumer debt stats?

What would happen if this debt was forgiven. Those same people would be out incurring debt and in a short time their debt would be up to previous levels. New cars, vacations, bigger TV's...the lot.
It would be like Christmas for them all over.

So no, I do not believe in debt forgiveness. It is like teaching people that they do not have to be responsible for their actions.
 

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In the past, they had 'debtors prisons', including in Canada . If you did not pay your debts, you went to prison and stayed there until you paid your debts or someone paid them for you. Of course, if you had no one to pay them for you, then you could end up staying in debtor's prison for the rest of your life.

In Canada there were not 'debtors prisons' specifically as there were in countries like the UK but debtors were held in a 'normal' prison solely on the basis of not paying their debts. The prison term was for an 'indefinite' time period.

Maybe we should bring that concept back. No more, 'oh well, I'll just declare bankruptcy and start over.'
 

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I have a $130 cell phone that I bought in Verizon packaging. Had it for three years, works like a charm. My spouse has a $250 Samsung. Bought on line from Koodo. Two years old, works like a charm. We can well afford to buy any phone on the market. We are happy with the ones we own and see no reason to change.

My SIL and BILretired) have top of the line Apple phones. They got them on the three year phone plans. They will no doubt get new ones at the end of three years and sign up to the program again. They are mired in debt. They pay a comparatively incredible amount of money each month to their cell phone carrier for these. Is it any wonder why they slot so neatly into the consumer debt stats? It is all about choices.

Debt that is 'forgiven' does not disappear. No different than inventory shrinkage, aka shoplifting and employee theft losses. It gets redistributed to those who pay their bills and to those who do not in the form of higher taxes or higher interest rates and higher prices. There is no magic to this...it is not an Alice in Wonderland environment despite what sags believes.
 

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Discussion Starter #46
In the past, they had 'debtors prisons', including in Canada . If you did not pay your debts, you went to prison and stayed there until you paid your debts or someone paid them for you. Of course, if you had no one to pay them for you, then you could end up staying in debtor's prison for the rest of your life.

In Canada there were not 'debtors prisons' specifically as there were in countries like the UK but debtors were held in a 'normal' prison solely on the basis of not paying their debts. The prison term was for an 'indefinite' time period.

Maybe we should bring that concept back. No more, 'oh well, I'll just declare bankruptcy and start over.'
But then taxpayers would have to pay the costs of the imprisonment, which in Canada are $115,000 a year.

That would be punishing the studious debt paying taxpayer as well.
 

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sags...the basic truth is that debt that gets forgiven does not disappear. It gets re-distributed. Would you like to pay more for goods, services, or credit in order to pay off your neighbours consumer debt. He had a luxury vacation that he could not afford. You may have had stay vacation because you were debt adverse.
 

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Discussion Starter #48
When was the last time a bank or credit card company lowered their fees or interest rates because they have lower loan losses than expected ?
 

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Sags...if you had a business where demand always equaled, or exceeded supply, would you lower your prices? I think not.

Instead , they lowered their qualification numbers or increased their credit limits.

Do you have a problem with business making money and investors taking profits in return for risking capital?
 

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Discussion Starter #50
How much longer do you think debt can propel the economy forward ? I think we are near the end of that strategy.
 

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Is that a reason to forgive debt. Heck, people will load up with new debt the day or day after their old debt is forgiven.

Forgiving debt does not help people learn to manage their money. If anything, It rewards them for being so poor at it. Is this what you want to encourage??..
 

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But then taxpayers would have to pay the costs of the imprisonment, which in Canada are $115,000 a year.

That would be punishing the studious debt paying taxpayer as well.
Umm, do some research sags. Debtors in prison were required to work to pay for their keep, it costs the taxpayers nothing. If they didn't work or have family to bring them food, they literally starved, simple as that.

"A debtors' prison is a prison for people who are unable to pay debt. Through the mid-19th century, debtors' prisons (usually similar in form to locked workhouses) were a common way to deal with unpaid debt in Western Europe.[1] Destitute persons who were unable to pay a court-ordered judgment would be incarcerated in these prisons until they had worked off their debt via labour or secured outside funds to pay the balance. The product of their labour went towards both the costs of their incarceration and their accrued debt." Wikipedia quote.

That kind of system would certainly provide motivation to A, not go into debt or B, work to get out of it
 

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Discussion Starter #53 (Edited)
Yea, and Jesus threw the money changers out of the synagogue, and the French perp walked the rich up to the guillotine.....chop, chop.

New motto for protestors.........Defund the Rich. Candlelight protest......bring your own torches and pitchforks.
 

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New motto for protestors.........Defund the Rich. Candlelight protest......bring your own torches and pitchforks.
That's been their motto for centuries...do you think the lazy left actually want to work? Nope, they've been raised thinking that someone should pay them to sit on their ***. You know because it's "fair".
 

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Discussion Starter #56
Nobody is lazier or more self entitled than the rich. They "do" the yacht club circuit while the "ants" do all their work for them.
 

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Right. Sometimes after risking every dime that they have on a venture or working twelve hour days, six or seven days a week, until they have built up a business or an investment has paid off. Now is exactly the time when some of those investments have become extremely risky. Especially for those in retail, food and lodging.
 

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Nobody is lazier or more self entitled than the rich. They "do" the yacht club circuit while the "ants" do all their work for them.
Why can't you do the same? Are you incompetent? Or do you just find it easier to cherry pick the very few who are successful and then complain?

One of my friends spent 15 years working 80 and often more hours a week trying to build a successful business. His wife's pay cheques were used in lean times to provide food and to cover his payroll so that his employees cheques didn't bounce. They even had to borrow money from their parents once or twice....they lost sleep over that.

Now he's successful and only has to work 30 hours a week. His net worth is 10 times mine and instead of being jealous I admire what he's done. You saw nothing of what he did or what other people like him did during all their lean years but as soon as their successful you suddenly think you're entitled to take your "fair share" based on your warped belief that he has too much. We've been friends for decades all I want from him is his continued friendship and the "good customer" discount.
 

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We know several people in this position. They were not always though. We are not resentful nor are we envious of them. We are happy for their well earned success. We know that they gave up a lot to get where they are. Long hours, in some instances long hours of post graduate work, few if any family vacations, going without in order to make a payroll. Often paying their employees more than they were able to take out of the business for themselves. Then success after years of working toward a dream.

They were never eligible for EI, for layoff separation bonuses, for employer pensions plans. They did not have 30 and out programs. They never had a union employer where 37.5 hours was the norm along with supplementary health, dental, and life insurance programs. No such thing as time and a half or double time for those additional 20-30 hours a week that they put into the business. Thank goodness for them. They worked hard be successful, they created jobs, and most contributed to their communities.
 
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