COVID-19 thread for 2022

114772 Views 4306 Replies 54 Participants Last post by james4beach, 5 mo ago

moderator2

Discussion Starter · Jan 1, 2022

Continuing the discussion here in a new thread.

Here's the old COVID-19 thread for 2020 and 2021

2481 - 2500 of 4307 Posts

james4beach

· #2,481 · May 10, 2022

There is a difference between the quality of a decision, and the outcome.

Smart decisions can have either good or bad outcomes.
Really stupid decisions can also have good outcomes.

One should always strive to make good decisions, and that's independent of what the outcome turns out to be.

But just because an outcome was good, doesn't mean the decision was smart. Medical experts continue to advise caution because of the possibility of waning immunity and new variants. AB and SK dropping their guard during a high-risk period was a really stupid decision.

Reactions: 2

londoncalling

· #2,482 · May 10, 2022

james4beach said:
There is a difference between the quality of a decision, and the outcome.

Smart decisions can have either good or bad outcomes.
Really stupid decisions can also have good outcomes.

One should always strive to make good decisions, and that's independent of what the outcome turns out to be.

This is a profound statement on decision making. 👏

james4beach

· #2,483 · May 10, 2022

londoncalling said:
This is a profound statement on decision making. 👏

Thanks, but I can't take credit for this. I highly recommend this video by Ben Felix, one of my favourites

How to Evaluate Your Investment Decisions

Reactions: 1

TomB16

· #2,484 · May 10, 2022

In this case, AB and SK were guided by less protective methodologies that proved to be the wiser course of action.

james4beach said:
There is a difference between the quality of a decision, and the outcome.

You make some good points, and I share your point of view, but I will point out that you have used this reasoning to justify a position that has proven to be incorrect.

The lockdowns were only intended to make the situation survivable for healthcare (slow propagation), not to stop the virus from propagating.

Sometimes, this sort of reasoning is support for a subjective position that would otherwise not be defensible. It seems likely to me that you, Beaver, and sags will never agree that lifting the lockdowns was the right thing to do, regardless of any objective evidence.

I've been following a network of YouTube physicians (about 15) located around the world who seemed to be objective. This evaluation proved correct, so I have been ahead of the curve including our healthcare system.

It's too early to call the COVID pandemic over but a lot of evidence is pointing in this direction. Omicron is the vaccine we could not make.

See less See more

Beaver101

· #2,485 · May 11, 2022 (Edited)

TomB16 said:
In this case, AB and SK were guided by less protective methodologies that proved to be the wiser course of action.

You make some good points, and I share your point of view, but I will point out that you have used this reasoning to justify a position that has proven to be incorrect.

The lockdowns were only intended to make the situation survivable for healthcare (slow propagation), not to stop the virus from propagating.

Sometimes, this sort of reasoning is support for a subjective position that would otherwise not be defensible. It seems likely to me that you, Beaver, and sags will never agree that lifting the lockdowns was the right thing to do, regardless of any objective evidence.

... hello? when are lifting lockdowns never (or considered) a right thing to do? My qualm was the lifting of them "lockdowns (if they were ever truly lockdowns per se like you were locked and bolted inside your home)" were done too early along with the restrictions. And what "objective evidence" were you basing on to open up everything? Positivity rate? Falling hospitalisations that's ever so sloooow? ICU numbers? Or Covid in them waste water?

I've been following a network of YouTube physicians (about 15) located around the world who seemed to be objective. This evaluation proved correct, so I have been ahead of the curve including our healthcare system.

. .. OMG, are you serious about following a network of YouTube physicians to get a sense of where this Covid thing is? I just follow 1 news (local, real world) channel, 1 infectious disease MD's (actually works over at UHN in Toronto) and already have a sense of we are with Covid. Sorry but I don't have all that time to follow some 14 other physicians (possibly with some quacks thrown in), especially from Youtube. I would rather watch the crop circles phenomenon from Youtube instead.

It's too early to call the COVID pandemic over but a lot of evidence is pointing in this direction. Omicron is the vaccine we could not make.

... let's hope and pray. In the meantime, I'll do my part not to receive and give Covid(19).

See less See more

Reactions: 1

MrMatt

· #2,486 · May 11, 2022

TomB16 said:
It's too early to call the COVID pandemic over but a lot of evidence is pointing in this direction. Omicron is the vaccine we could not make.

I don't think it will be over, I think we'll just lose interest/concern.

james4beach

· #2,487 · May 11, 2022

There's a problem with liver disease in kids, a major problem globally. Some kids even end up with liver failure.

It's most pronounced in the US and UK.

Scientists are mystified. They've ruled out covid vaccines since most of these children weren't vaccinated. But COVID is possibly playing a role in this. The common cold is also suspected, but that doesn't make a lot of sense, since the common cold has been around forever. It could of course also be some combined effect of carrying multiple infections (perhaps weakened by the cold, and then catching COVID).

Potentially a very serious problem. I wouldn't shrug off COVID if I were you guys.

Reactions: 2

Beaver101

· #2,488 · May 11, 2022

Are we talking about the same subject?

'A new pathogen or an old pathogen that is behaving differently:' SickKids reports 7 probable cases of severe hepatitis of unknown origin

Here's a snippet of the article (open, no paywall):

...
“The challenge with this breakout of new cases is that the typical hepatitis viruses are not being found in these children,” pediatrician Dr. Dina Kulik told CP24 earlier on Tuesday.

“Some of these kids tested positive for COVID, some had previous documented COVID-19 infections, and many kids are testing positive for another typically benign virus known as adenovirus that doesn’t typically cause hepatitis or really severe illness at all.”

The World Health Organization says it is now aware of 348 cases of the unexplained hepatitis in kids around the world, with one death reported and 17 liver transplants required so far in response.

Upton said that the cases at SickKids have involved children between the ages of two and 14. None of the children are currently being cared for in hospital, he said.

“The most important thing is, first of all, this is rare. So it's important to recognize that and it's not so far any of the recognized causes of hepatitis. But the investigations continue worldwide to get a better understanding of whether or not we're looking at a new pathogen or an old pathogen that is behaving differently in individuals for whatever reason,” he said.

Multiple causes of the hepatitis cases are under investigation. British authorities have said a rare adenovirus may be to blame.

Meanwhile, researchers in India and Israel have found data that suggests previous COVID-19 infection might be the culprit.

In a statement provided to CP24 on Tuesday, the Public Health Agency of Canada said that it is aware of the cases of severe acute hepatitis at SickKids and is monitoring the situation. ...

james4beach

· #2,489 · May 11, 2022

Beaver101 said:
Are we talking about the same subject?

Yes I think that's the same one. The US is tracking about 100 suspected cases. So far 14% of the children required liver transplants though the WHO's number is more like 5% needing transplants. Either way, horrendous.

MrMatt

· #2,490 · May 11, 2022 (Edited)

james4beach said:
Scientists are mystified. They've ruled out covid vaccines since most of these children weren't vaccinated. But COVID is possibly playing a role in this. The common cold is also suspected, but that doesn't make a lot of sense, since the common cold has been around forever. It could of course also be some combined effect of carrying multiple infections (perhaps weakened by the cold, and then catching COVID).

Potentially a very serious problem. I wouldn't shrug off COVID if I were you guys.

The common cold and Coronavirus has been around forever. Remember lots of the common cold is actually coronavirus.

I don't understand your distinction. If the idea that a particular Coronavirus strain causes this problem, then why would liver damage be somehow more likely with one Coronavirus strain instead of another? The only real difference is COVID19 has been heavily promoted in the media.

Beaver101

· #2,491 · May 11, 2022

MrMatt said:
The common cold and Coronavirus has been around forever. Remember lots of the common cold is actually coronavirus.

I don't understand your distinction. If the idea that a particular Coronavirus strain causes this problem, then why would liver damage be somehow more likely with one Coronavirus strain instead of another? The only real difference is COVID19 has been heavily promoted in the media.

... talk about a lax (for a lack of a better word) mind as if the thousands, if not millions of deaths count as nothing.

Unbelieveable.

OptsyEagle

· #2,492 · May 11, 2022

james4beach said:
There is a difference between the quality of a decision, and the outcome.

Smart decisions can have either good or bad outcomes.
Really stupid decisions can also have good outcomes.

One should always strive to make good decisions, and that's independent of what the outcome turns out to be.

But just because an outcome was good, doesn't mean the decision was smart. Medical experts continue to advise caution because of the possibility of waning immunity and new variants. AB and SK dropping their guard during a high-risk period was a really stupid decision.

No doubt one requires more investigation to determine the quality of a decision then just using the final outcome, when we live in a world that produces many random future outcomes combining both good luck with the bad.

That said, there is no doubt that the decision to drop all precautions in 2022 was the correct decision. You have to be completely stubborn with your previous opinions, not to notice by now that the pandemic is better today then almost any day since it started. These positive results are not in spite of dropping our precautions but because of it. You see that everywhere you look. Community exposure has been the only thing that has had the power to put this pandemic down. The vaccines provided us the strength to acquire this exposure, but it was that exposure that has finally broken the back of the pandemic.

Not only is what I said obvious today looking back, but it was extremely probable, back in January/February, using our best scientific theories AND from observations of results from other countries who waded into these same waters before us.

See less See more

TomB16

· #2,493 · May 11, 2022

james4beach said:
I wouldn't shrug off COVID if I were you guys.

For sure.

COVID is still around and dangerous but it is becoming increasingly less dangerous because it has less fuel to burn, now that so many people have had it.

Much like the bubonic plague, people will continue to get it, people will continue to die from it, and the numbers will be very low.

TomB16

· #2,494 · May 11, 2022

To be direct, I don't know what some of you are arguing about. Perhaps some of these posts are nominal negativity for the individuals posting them?

Are any of you arguing that we should continue lock down, masking, more vaccine boosters, crowd restrictions, etc.?

Maybe we are all on the same page?

MrMatt

· #2,495 · May 11, 2022

TomB16 said:
To be direct, I don't know what some of you are arguing about. Perhaps some of these posts are nominal negativity for the individuals posting them?

Are any of you arguing that we should continue lock down, masking, more vaccine boosters, crowd restrictions, etc.?

Maybe we are all on the same page?

We should mask in higher risk settings, because it's very low cost and potentially helpful at limiting a bit.

There are people out there who want lockdowns. But they're simply not going to happen at this point.

sags

· #2,496 · May 11, 2022 (Edited)

Hospitalizations and deaths are coming down in our area, so that is good news for worn out healthcare workers.

The bad news is that experts expect a big wave in the fall and there is uncertainty around future mutations.

But........I am not opposed to opening up a little now to relieve pressure, as long as the government is not hesitant to do what may be necessary in the future.

Personally, I won't be going to a Blue Jays game with 50,000 other people as my risk level profile has not changed and I still wear a mask.

About the only "freedom" I have now is being with our son and family for an odd occasion.

I lucked out with them.......because they all got covid during a time when we didn't have contact for a week or two.

See less See more

Reactions: 2

Beaver101

· #2,497 · May 11, 2022 (Edited)

MrMatt said:
We should mask in higher risk settings, because it's very low cost and potentially helpful at limiting a bit.

There are people out there who want lockdowns. But they're simply not going to happen at this point.

... are you still crying? By being exposed to your exaggerations? Father and son got ticketed for trying to skate-board in a parking lot 'cause the government (hear this, from the "Ford" government) mandated a "lockdown" in Scarborough (not your town btw). My my my ... how did the father and son even make it out to the parking lot in the first place, never mind erroneously ticketed by an overzealous inept by-law officer?

Beaver101

· #2,498 · May 11, 2022

sags said:
Hospitalizations and deaths are coming down in our area, so that is good news for worn out healthcare workers.

The bad news is that experts expect a big wave in the fall and there is uncertainty around future mutations.

But........I am not opposed to opening up a little now to relieve pressure, as long as the government is not hesitant to do what may be necessary in the future.

Personally, I won't be going to a Blue Jays game with 50,000 other people as my risk level profile has not changed and I still wear a mask.

About the only "freedom" I have now is being with our son and family for an odd occasion.

I lucked out with them.......because they all got covid during a time when we didn't have contact for a week or two.

... yep, I'm still waiting for an invite from my next door neighbour for his annual BBQ event(s).

MrMatt

· #2,499 · May 11, 2022

sags said:
The bad news is that experts expect a big wave in the fall and there is uncertainty around future mutations.

Yeah, and after SARS-CoV-1 they stopped worrying, threw out the pandemic stockpiles and along came SARS-CoV-2

But........I am not opposed to opening up a little now to relieve pressure, as long as the government is not hesitant to do what may be necessary in the future.

The Federal government never did what was necessary, so they will likely hestitate again.
The provinces can't do much because there is no public support to do so.

Personally, I won't be going to a Blue Jays game with 50,000 other people as my risk level profile has not changed and I still wear a mask.

I wouldn't either, because baseball is dumb.

I lucked out with them.......because they all got covid during a time when we didn't have contact for a week or two.

over 90% of my wifes department at her work has had COVID. Though we haven't yet.

TomB16

· #2,500 · May 11, 2022

Beaver101 said:
... yep, I'm still waiting for an invite from my next door neighbour for his annual BBQ event(s).

I suspect your invitation chances would improve immeasurably if you were to sweeten your disposition.

2481 - 2500 of 4307 Posts