[TomB16]

The UK has done a study which shows 99% of the population has some form of immunity from infection/vaccine/hybrid.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) latest insights - Office for National Statistics

Meanwhile, the Whitehouse is pushing Paxlovid as though we know it helps people with immunity.

 

[Plugging Along]

Suddenly, blowing my nose in the shower doesn't seem so undignified.

Nah. Just don’t blow it too hard if you are getting ready for a rapid test. Anything in a more solid form doesn’t get squished through the dropper.

cant say I ever worry about being dignified in a shower.

 

[james4beach]

The UK has done a study which shows 99% of the population has some form of immunity from infection/vaccine/hybrid

People with previous exposure can still get sick again. Reinfection is possible whether or not there are antibodies.

Immunity to COVID seems to last between 1-4 months, then people can get sick again. It's happening to quite a few people and I'm already hearing, anecdotally, from friends who are going through their second ones.

 

[james4beach]

The WHO estimates that 15 million people have died globally due to COVID, either directly or indirectly.

This is based on "excess deaths" and includes people who died of other causes because they couldn't get normal healthcare for other conditions.

 

[TomB16]

This is based on "excess deaths" and includes people who died of other causes because they couldn't get normal healthcare for other conditions.

I get a sense this is a significant factor. There are reports of poor countries where COVID came to town and people started dying of curable conditions like appendicitis and pneumonia that went untreated because of COVID policy.

 

[james4beach]

I get a sense this is a significant factor. There are reports of poor countries where COVID came to town and people started dying of curable conditions like appendicitis and pneumonia that went untreated because of COVID policy.

For sure. A friend of mine was in Indonesia and caught dengue fever in 2020. It seemed very serious, he couldn't eat at all, could barely move and described it as some of the worst pain he's ever felt.

He dragged himself to 2 different hospitals which both rejected him! They refused to look at him and sent him home. He ended up finding a private doctor, who came to his house and hooked him up to an IV and monitored his condition, watching for hemorrhaging. He could have been in serious danger if he had not been able to afford a private doctor (I think he also bribed the doctor).

Another close call was my friend's uncle in Winnipeg. He suffered a stroke and ended up in the hospital. Part way through his care, they booted him out of the usual ward because they had to make space for COVID patients. It sounds like his quality of care for the stroke suffered due to hospital load for COVID.

 

[sags]

Covid exposed the underlying problems with our healthcare system, nothing has been done to change that and nobody seems to care.

 

[Beaver101]

Covid exposed the underlying problems with our healthcare system, nothing has been done to change that and nobody seems to care.

... more than just an exposure - the "nothing has been done" is the key by those who are in charge and can do something about it.

This just came up today or published yesterday May 5, 2022:

Bring back mask mandates, 3 medical officers of health write in letter to Ontario's top doc

Published Thursday, May 5, 2022

Three local medical officers of health have written a joint letter to Ontario's top doctor, asking him to bring back mask mandates in schools and other indoor public settings.

Dr. Mustafa Hirji, Niagara Region's medical officer of health, Dr. Shanker Nesathurai, the Windsor-Essex County's medical officer of health, and Dr. Thomas Piggott, Peterborough's medical officer of health, penned the letter and sent it to Dr. Kieran Moore, Ontario's chief medical officer of health, on Wednesday.
..
"To be fully effective and clear in communication to Ontarians, we believe this is needed at a provincial, not a local level," the letter reads.

"Like you, we had hoped that as masking and other protections ceased to be requirements, that we would be able to get through this wave without much suffering or long-term disruption. Unfortunately, this does not seem to have played out as we had hoped."

In March, the Ford government lifted the mask mandate for most settings. That decision, according to a brief from Public Health Ontario (PHO), contributed to the province's sixth wave which saw about 100,000 to 120,000 daily cases at one point in April.

The surge led to repeated calls for the government to reintroduce masking, especially in schools. But, the province repeatedly insisted that it was not needed.

In their letter, the three doctors noted that COVID-19 hospitalizations in their regions continue to exceed figures from previous pandemic waves. It led Niagara's main hospital to ramp down surgeries to 70 per cent, they said, adding that, earlier this week, 100 patients were admitted without a bed.

"The COVID-19 pandemic has clearly had a disproportionate impact on the individuals and communities with the worst social determinants of health. The current persistently high transmission of COVID-19 is exacerbating inequalities in our society," the doctors wrote.

"This subjects those with inequities to more infections, more hospitalizations, more isolation from work and school, more lost income due to isolation, and more risk of long-term disability with Post-Acute COVID Syndrome (aka Long COVID)."

In the letter, the doctors highlighted the importance of masking in reducing COVID-19 infections, asking Moore to reconsider imposing mandates.

The return of masking could help protect those with inequities and vulnerabilities, relieve the pressures on our hospitals, and most importantly protect the health of the people we serve," they said.

...

... but then it wouldn't surprise me that the provincial's CPO acting as an MO needs "time to 'think'" about this in his home-office, only after the need to consult with boss Ford first - if he can then take an extended holiday instead.

 

[TomB16]

Covid exposed the underlying problems with our healthcare system, nothing has been done to change that and nobody seems to care.

Lmao!

How do you propose we change healthcare to treat 8 billion people with an unknown virus?

This is like blaming NASA for the Harrington solar storm.

Our problems were political and societal. Our healthcare system was actually pretty solid, with perhaps an opportunity for a few improvements.

 

[Beaver101]

^ Might be solid out in your part of the country of Vancouver/B.C.

Doesn't sound very solid in Alberta with this member's post #11 in this thread:
Labor shortage

Thanks to the UCP and Jason Kenney for destroying the AB healthcare system.

and it's definitely NOT solid in Ontario. The pandemic exacerbated the holes, if not stretched the health systems in Ontario.

I guess it's easiest to close one eyes and stick one's head somewhere - particularly with the job of an "ept" politician "pretending" that there is no back-log of canceled medical procedures/elective surgeries of the last 2+ years and compounding. Amazing.

Don't get me started with the political speak of "opportunity for few improvements."

 

[james4beach]

Doctors are quitting. Nurses are quitting. They've all been working in very stressful conditions, are exhausted, some have PTSD. Many of them have caught covid and are constantly exposed to covid contagion at their jobs.

I really am not on board with Canada relaxing everything and pretending this is over. If we get another bad wave, we're only going to burn out more doctors & nurses. Many of them are thinking -- this moment -- whether it's time to quit. When society doesn't take any precautionary measures to limit the spread of infectious disease, that problem can land on the lap of these healthcare workers.

Ending mask laws and allowing limitless public gatherings is downright disrespectful to doctors & nurses. They WILL QUIT. We've been warned.

Some people on this thread have voiced arguments for why we're likely past the worst stuff, and I agree, things are looking good but I don't want to gamble with our healthcare system. All it takes is one more bad wave (could be this fall/winter when schools resume) and that could be "the last straw" for the healthcare workers who haven't quit yet.

And then we're really toast.

 

[Money172375]

Talked to my neighbour last night. He has family in Shanghai. Thankfully they are scheduled to return to Canada this week after 6 years there.

they haven’t been allowed to leave their apartment for 40 days. Locked down. Food is delivered. Haven’t seen a fruit in 2 months. Last food delivery was 5 lbs of oatmeal. That’s it.

and we complain about lockdowns!

 

[Beaver101]

^ No, we ***** bitterly about lockdowns, the horrible mandates, the useless vaccines, the muzzling masks and then protest in front of hospitals.

As those aren't enough, then we rant or more like blast some more by taking some 16 wheelers over to Ottawa to harass the residents there so that Trudeau would listen (as he said he was.)

No wonder those people here are going bonkers with these self-induced behaviours.

Almost forgot - now we're known as a commie country too ... LMAO.

 

[MrMatt]

Doctors are quitting. Nurses are quitting. They've all been working in very stressful conditions, are exhausted, some have PTSD. Many of them have caught covid and are constantly exposed to covid contagion at their jobs.

I really am not on board with Canada relaxing everything and pretending this is over. If we get another bad wave, we're only going to burn out more doctors & nurses. Many of them are thinking -- this moment -- whether it's time to quit. When society doesn't take any precautionary measures to limit the spread of infectious disease, that problem can land on the lap of these healthcare workers.

Ending mask laws and allowing limitless public gatherings is downright disrespectful to doctors & nurses. They WILL QUIT. We've been warned.

Some people on this thread have voiced arguments for why we're likely past the worst stuff, and I agree, things are looking good but I don't want to gamble with our healthcare system. All it takes is one more bad wave (could be this fall/winter when schools resume) and that could be "the last straw" for the healthcare workers who haven't quit yet.

And then we're really toast.

James, you're really sounding like the boy who cried wolf.
Yeah, maybe dropping masks was a bad idea, but we're over that wave. See bottom of post. Even dropping all the measures barely made a change to the impact.

Lets assume it's spreading like crazy, it's simply not killing many people today. It's not the dangerous unknown 3% death rate virus we had in early 2020.
It's killing less than 1 in a million per day.

Yes it's chewing up a lot of baseline hospital capacity.
Time to get back to normal.

The thing is you can be not happy about the situation, I'm not happy about some things too.
But what do you actually propose we do?

We can't stop it, the measures that MIGHT be able to stop it would be very harsh, and the public won't support it.
You want to pull a China style lockdown here? It won't fly

I still wear a mask when I'm out, I take some precautions, but I'm not going to live my life in a bubble anymore.
And I was a stronger vaccination/lockdown supporter, and if COVID19 was still that dangerous I'd still be pushing for them now.

 

[james4beach]

Lets assume it's spreading like crazy, it's simply not killing many people today.

I didn't say we have a problem today. I said that we're running the risk, if there is a new and worse wave, that hospitals could feel the load again.

You shouldn't just extrapolate today's good situation.

 

[sags]

Many experts are predicting another large wave in the fall.

There are a lot of holes in our healthcare system that need to be fixed. Waiting lists for surgeries are now extended to years.

I personally don't care what the other 8 billion people in the world do for heatlhcare. I am only concerned about the 35 million people in Canada.

Lots of pledges by Provincial Premiers have been made but very little has changed. They are hoping it all just goes away.

 

[MrMatt]

I didn't say we have a problem today. I said that we're running the risk, if there is a new and worse wave, that hospitals could feel the load again.

You shouldn't just extrapolate today's good situation.

Yes we should extrapolate todays good situation.

There always is, always was, and always will be a new and worse wave of something that could cause a problem.

There really isn't much we can do to change it, the risk is lower, the people don't want to, and even abusive police states are having trouble keeping their restrictions going.

There are a lot of holes in our healthcare system that need to be fixed. Waiting lists for surgeries are now extended to years.

I think when you say "now" you mean always.
Our surgery waitlists have ALWAYS extended for years.

I personally don't care what the other 8 billion people in the world do for heatlhcare. I am only concerned about the 35 million people in Canada.

So do I, which is why I'm really hoping that the PC's stay in power in Ontario, they handled COVID19 well, and they were working on a total revamp of LTC when COVID hit, because they actually want to fix things.

 

[Beaver101]

Yes we should extrapolate todays good situation.

There always is, always was, and always will be a new and worse wave of something that could cause a problem.

There really isn't much we can do to change it, the risk is lower, the people don't want to, and even abusive police states are having trouble keeping their restrictions going.

... just like the abusive police states "are/will ALWAYS" having trouble keeping their restrictions going with those self-centered induced morons.

I think when you say "now" you mean always.
Our surgery waitlists have ALWAYS extended for years.

So do I, which is why I'm really hoping that the PC's stay in power in Ontario, they handled COVID19 well, and they were working on a total revamp of LTC when COVID hit, because they actually want to fix things.

... that's laughable as to date I haven't seen nor heard of the "plan" from the PC party on how they gonna to fix broken healthcare systems particularly the BACKLOG of cancelled elective surgeries and procedures. Other than an announcement that they're building a new hospital (or wing) out in Mississauga ... that's gonna to sit at least half empty. And that we're gonna to be hiring more nurses and doctors with more pay 'cause Ontario got some 3,100 beds to fill up. Meanwhile the PC is declaring the pandemic is over.

So what the PC "has handled" the Covid19 well but it's not over with a possibility of not being over for a loooong time. Meanwhile should we award them for a Nobel Prize for doing their job?

 

[TomB16]

You shouldn't just extrapolate today's good situation.

It would be a shame to let an opportunity for pessimism pass by unactioned.

 

[TomB16]

Does anyone remember when AB and SK were out of their tree for relaxing restrictions? From memory, we were all going to die.

In December, I went for lunch with some former coworkers and mentioned I thought there was a good chance Omicron would be the last big COVID wave. It went about the same as when I mentioned it in this thread in January.

At some point, we need to acknowledge that our response is largely based on philosophy. Some people want to cocoon at the first sign of trouble while others would have never quarantined, regardless of the life consequence or healthcare conditions. Its OK that conservatives have a different point of view than liberals. Both sides can be correct on this.