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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey Canadian Money Peeps.

So - I"m helping my lovely wife put together a couch potato portfolio on RBCDI. I understand the basics of trading and order types... but. She has 200k in cash in the account. (RSP)

We are planning on using Vanguard ETFs.

Thoughts and suggestions on order sizes? I know to use limit orders of course, and do it during normal trading hours - but I have never traded at this size. Are we better to put big limit orders in for all or none below the market and wait? Better to do a limit at mid-spread in large size? Better to break it up into a few smaller orders and do it over days/weeks?

I know a few of you on here are very experienced and might have done this. I will accept any and all ideas and suggestions!

Oh - and I notice RBCDI will let her pay commissions out of Visa points, which is sweet!
 

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I've only do market trades for the day, so I can't help you with the type. But I do have several couch potato portfolios, registered and otherwise. I would split the money up into three or four different index EFTS, 40% fixed, 60% equities, or if you like more risk, 25% fixed and 75% equities. I have bought Vanguard SP 500 Index (VFV) in a non registered account. I really like it, and it's dividends. Buy and hold. Have fun!
 

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What I would do is set the limit a few pennies above the market price and do it all at once (but not necessarily "all or none" option). Limit is there more as protection. My feeling is that you would get filled at good prices, this dollar amount probably won't be moving the market with these Vanguard ETFs. Exchange doesn't like you "removing liquidity" like this, but oh well. You can do a calculation and see if setting the limit price a few cents below the market price is worth messing around in the long run.

Also, 666 posts. :eek2:
 

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I use limit orders set right at market Ask (or one penny above) for liquid ETFs. I have bought (and advised others) buying 1000-3000 units at a time. In a normal market day, those orders will fill either instantaneously or in partial fills over 1-5 minutes. That wouldn't work in a market that is moving significantly down (in which case you wouldn't be buying then anyway - you would wait for that trend to stop/soften).

Note: The AON option doesn't exist in certain markets any more.
 

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I do the same thing as AltaRed. When buying, one buy order for the day, for the quantity I need with a limit order at or slightly above the ask price. It might fill immediately, or in a couple of partial fills, which my broker (TD) allows for one commission. If it does not fill for a while, I will recheck the ask price and bump it up a bit if necessary (TD also allows modifying an order price if it has not filled). I don't see a reason, when buying ETFs, to enter a price lower than ask... maybe on volatile individual stocks, but not ETFs.

As a relatively newb investor (at least compared to the veterans here) I feel your pain. When I first set up my portfolio I entered one small order, just to get a feel for the process. Stock orders are prone to errors and somewhat stressful, especially big ones. I think it's better to just enter an order for the quantity I want, instead of splitting it into smaller orders that increase the chance of making a mistake. I made myself a 10-point checklist for entering orders, to minimize the chance of making an error.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
What I would do is set the limit a few pennies above the market price and do it all at once (but not necessarily "all or none" option). Limit is there more as protection. My feeling is that you would get filled at good prices, this dollar amount probably won't be moving the market with these Vanguard ETFs. Exchange doesn't like you "removing liquidity" like this, but oh well. You can do a calculation and see if setting the limit price a few cents below the market price is worth messing around in the long run.

Also, 666 posts. :eek2:
Hey Argonaut - long time. :) Yeah I noticed the number of the beast. :D

I hear you, this is very long term money, so I'm not worried about every penny. I'll plan the orders and watch the flow tomorrow to get a handle on it. I'm experienced enough to understand the order types and I'm comfortable with 5-10k buys and sells, but doing 10x that is new to me, so just checking. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I use limit orders set right at market Ask (or one penny above) for liquid ETFs. I have bought (and advised others) buying 1000-3000 units at a time. In a normal market day, those orders will fill either instantaneously or in partial fills over 1-5 minutes. That wouldn't work in a market that is moving significantly down (in which case you wouldn't be buying then anyway - you would wait for that trend to stop/soften).

Note: The AON option doesn't exist in certain markets any more.
Interesting - I see it on the buy screen in RBC-DI but it's greyed out, and that explains why. We are talking the 3 most popular Vanguard ETFs, so they should be plenty liquid. I mean not XIU liquid, but for the Canadian market, not bad.

I do the same thing as AltaRed. When buying, one buy order for the day, for the quantity I need with a limit order at or slightly above the ask price. It might fill immediately, or in a couple of partial fills, which my broker (TD) allows for one commission. If it does not fill for a while, I will recheck the ask price and bump it up a bit if necessary (TD also allows modifying an order price if it has not filled). I don't see a reason, when buying ETFs, to enter a price lower than ask... maybe on volatile individual stocks, but not ETFs.

As a relatively newb investor (at least compared to the veterans here) I feel your pain. When I first set up my portfolio I entered one small order, just to get a feel for the process. Stock orders are prone to errors and somewhat stressful, especially big ones. I think it's better to just enter an order for the quantity I want, instead of splitting it into smaller orders that increase the chance of making a mistake. I made myself a 10-point checklist for entering orders, to minimize the chance of making an error.
I used to trade options reasonably frequently, so I'm comfortable with the order process, but this is my wife - so a check list is a great idea and I think I'll do that. Tanks for the great idea! Care to share yours?
 

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RBC will deduct visa points for commission fee that is not a good deal. It's not free. Try to negotiate with them and get at least 50 free trades as she has $200k invested amount. If they don't agree, you might find BMO or TD will give her free trades.

BMO also offers cash back https://www.bmo.com/self-directed/special-offers/offer

After that you can invest by following value averaging method http://www.investopedia.com/articles/stocks/07/dcavsva.asp for the next six to eight months instead of investing all at once.
 

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a check list is a great idea and I think I'll do that. Tanks for the great idea! Care to share yours?
Here is my list - a bit detailed but I think it covers all the bases. :rugby:

  1. Determine stock symbol, market and quantity
  2. Check to ensure using correct account
  3. Get a quote
  4. Check quote stock decription matches stock I want
  5. Check enough real time cash if buying
  6. Use a limit order, at or slightly above ask if buying, at or slightly below bid if selling
  7. If selling, ensure I have enough shares to sell
  8. Ensure there is enough cash in account to cover commission
  9. Check total amount of cash & amount to buy
  10. Enter trading p/w
  11. Hold my breath, pull the lever and hope for a jackpot :biggrin:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
RBC will deduct visa points for commission fee that is not a good deal. It's not free. Try to negotiate with them and get at least 50 free trades as she has $200k invested amount. If they don't agree, you might find BMO or TD will give her free trades.

BMO also offers cash back https://www.bmo.com/self-directed/special-offers/offer

After that you can invest by following value averaging method http://www.investopedia.com/articles/stocks/07/dcavsva.asp for the next six to eight months instead of investing all at once.
We can try to negotiate - but as long as I can charge something OUTSIDE of the registered account I'm pretty happy. The commission is a very small amount, so as long as the points are reasonable it's not bad. If they points value is crazy then that's not good I suppose.
 

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Hey Argonaut - long time. :)

left turn is it really yourself & argo back in the same thread after all these months & years? how nice, all we need now is the gobster.

btw if you're starting a new account with $200 BMO seems to be a broker that will pay good cash to get the business. Something along the lines of $100 for every 100k in the new account to be recruited, plus usually a whack of free trades.

the only catch is that client cannot withdraw for 6 months without forfeiting the bonus; but in a registered account there are not likely to be any withdrawals anyhow.

BMO's online platform is probably similar to roybank's. Both can gambit rapidly & easily online, 2 cheap online trades one right after the other & you're done.

alas both are pitiful with options


.
 
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