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Yeah, that is certainly part of the problem.
People didn't choose to not have the service - the government did.
If people 'suffer mentally' due to service reductions - then that is on government.
... and who's the "government" or how did it come about?

Elected by the people (like you and I and everyone else), no? Ie. it's on "us=the people".

Analogy (question): do you like to shoot yourself in the foot? That's basically what anti-this&that are doing ... this pandemic is going to drag.
 

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And this is precisely what Milgram experiment has shown.
Over 70% of people are willing to kill and innocent person if told by some authority.
You really think if they are willing to kill an innocents then they care about something trivial like mental health of their peers? - this is where we are as society
Whatever you consider government to be, they (whether elected people or those who voted for them) are responsible for the lack of services. Not the employees, nor the people who are in need of such services.
 

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Well du-uh, we know this.
The problem is our "leaders" told us vaccination would stop it, but of course they lied.

They're still sticking to that story, even doubling down, even though they know it's a lie.

COVID19 will be here forever, it will never go away. But with vaccination the death rate will fall and we will be able to go about our lives as normal.
Matt, you think leaders lie a lot. Is it possible, they thought it would work, and said so?

even now, aren’t they saying it helps to reduce spread and prevent serious illness?

i think it’s well established that the vaccines aren’t a cure or 100% effective at stopping transmission. Are there leaders saying otherwise?
 

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And this is precisely what Milgram experiment has shown.
Over 70% of people are willing to kill and innocent person if told by some authority.
... don't know what that "experiment" is nor am I going to find out when I have use of my own common sense.

You really think if they are willing to kill an innocents then they care about something trivial like mental health of their peers? - this is where we are as society
... did your head get loosened from reading all those "experiments" and what-have-yous (aka theories) that you keep throwing out.

First, who/what is killing people, let alone the "innocents". You really believe that the vaccine was created to kill people? I'm still breathing and typing. Secondly, was it not your concern that people (especially kids) would suffer mentally if we go into another lockdown or restrictions imposed if we can't get a handle on the virus/spread.

What's exactly your preference? No vaccine, no masking, no lockdown, no restrictions, do nothing? Except to "test" all day, every day, everyone as if the spread is going to miraculously stop if someone tests positive and would quietly and co-operatively (gasp!) "isolate".

Whatever you consider government to be, they (whether elected people or those who voted for them) are responsible for the lack of services. Not the employees, nor the people who are in need of such services.
... your view of the "government" here or the people that operates it is from Mars. Now if you said they're functioning like "management" of a company, I would have believed you. But your statement above makes absolute NO sense (polite version) or not so polite version - your way of divisiveness.
 

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... don't know what that "experiment" is nor am I going to find out when I have use of my own common sense.

... did your head get loosened from reading those "experiments" and what-have-yous (aka theories) that you keep throwing out. First, who/what is killing people, let alone the "innocents". You really believe that the vaccine was created to kill people? Secondly, wasn't it was your concern that people (especially kids) would suffer mentally if we go into another lockdown or with restrictions if we can't get a handle on the virus/spread. What's exactly your preference? No vaccine, no masking, no lockdown, no restrictions, do nothing. Except to "test" all day, every day, everyone as if the spread is going to miraculously stop if someone tests positive and quietly and co-operatively (gasp!) "isolate".

... your view of the "government" here or the people that operates it is from Mars. Now if you said they're functioning like "management" of a company, I would have believed you. But your statement above makes absolute NO sense (polite version) or not so polite version - your way of divisiveness.
Really? One of the best known sociological experiments of all time examining authority, power structure, and explaining how atrocities such as holocaust, genocide, residential schools are allowed to happen and you have never heard of it nor are willing to educate yourself?

Your second paragraph has nothing to do with my post - you would know that if you knew what Milgram experiment was. My post was clearly referring to it, not saying that 'vaccine was created to kill people'/

Vaccine doesn't stop lockdowns - nations with >90% of vaccination rate are reintroducing restriction. Nation with 100% vaccination rate is also introducing restrictions.

Fine, 'management' of the public services is to blame.
 

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Really? One of the best known sociological experiments of all time examining authority, power structure, and explaining how atrocities such as holocaust, genocide, residential schools are allowed to happen and you have never heard of it nor are willing to educate yourself?
... you labelled it as an "experiment" and the real-world atrocities you have listed still happened. And so you just discovered hindsight?

Your second paragraph has nothing to do with my post - you would know that if you knew what Milgram experiment was. My post was clearly referring to it, not saying that 'vaccine was created to kill people'/
... then explain to me what you were you referring to with your post (repasted here) if it's not the "vaccine". As an alternative, I would have thought you meant the pro-vaxxers (and the government) want the "innocent" anti-vaxxers killed.

And this is precisely what Milgram experiment has shown.
Over 70% of people are willing to kill and innocent person if told by some authority.
You really think if they are willing to kill an innocents then they care about something trivial like mental health of their peers?
- this is where we are as society

Vaccine doesn't stop lockdowns - nations with >90% of vaccination rate are reintroducing restriction. Nation with 100% vaccination rate is also introducing restrictions.
... never said the vaccine "stop" lockdowns, "stop" the spread, "stop" the pandemic. It seems like you're another soul stucked with this notion of the vaccine being a "silver bullet" to ending the pandemic.

Fine, 'management' of the public services is to blame.
.. keep in mind that we (taxpayers) put those management there in the first place.
 

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Read the experiment and you would stop with useless, completely off-point questions. If you aren't willing to educate yourself then stop interpreting a paragraph that you have zero knowledge about what it was commenting.

Doesn't matter who put the management in place. If the management does a shitty job that results in 'company' not being able to provide services, then the 'management' is liable to critique regardless of how they ended up there in the first place.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7,008 ·
Farmers Insurance never heard of that experiment thing and they know a thing or two because they've seen a thing or two.
 

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Read the experiment and you would stop with useless, completely off-point questions. If you aren't willing to educate yourself then stop interpreting a paragraph that you have zero knowledge about what it was commenting.
... why don't you stick to the topic (aka "one" topic) instead of spewing all over the place, trying to deflect the question with useless information so that I don't have to throw completely off-point useless questions to you, huh? And no, I'm not going to read your "experimental" theory to figure out what's your answer to the simple question "what were you exactly referring to, if not the vaccine"?

Doesn't matter who put the management in place. If the management does a shitty job that results in 'company' not being able to provide services, then the 'management' is liable to critique regardless of how they ended up there in the first place.
... of course, management or those in charge are "liable to be critique" for the lack of providing services or mishandling them. That's call accountability. But as their employer (as in we, the public, the taxpayers) are also liable for the employees' "safety" too. So just go re-read the "critique" from your earlier post:

Whatever you consider government to be, they (whether elected people or those who voted for them) are responsible for the lack of services. Not the employees, nor the people who are in need of such services.
I hope you're fully aware that public management is not self-employed. So don't start shooting yourself in the foot.
 

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... why don't you stick to the topic (aka "one" topic) instead of spewing all over the place, trying to deflect the question with useless information so that I don't have to throw completely off-point useless questions to you, huh? And no, I'm not going to read your "experimental" theory to figure out what's your answer to the simple question "what were you exactly referring to, if not the vaccine"?

... of course, management or those in charge are "liable to be critique" for the lack of providing services or mishandling them. That's call accountability. But as their employer (as in we, the public, the taxpayers) are also liable for the employees' "safety" too. So just go re-read the "critique" from your earlier post:



I hope you're fully aware that public management is not self-employed. So don't start shooting yourself in the foot.
It is on topic. Just because you don't know what is being referred to doesn't mean it is off-topic.
There is relatively low level of common knowledge in the society, but I didn't realize it is so bad that people don't know what Milgram experiment is.

And on your second point:
a) you are not safer to your surroundings if you are vaccinated
b) if employee in a private company doesn't like their terms of employment and leaves, do you blame them for inability of the company to provide goods or services? - I would hope not.
Employees are not slaves. Inability of the company/public to provide service is solely fault of the 'management', not employees
 

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Discussion Starter · #7,012 ·
Miligram......miligram........wasn't Miligram the black fella in the 2nd season of the Fargo series ?

I can see the connection. He was a pretty intimidating guy using psychology and whatnot.
 

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Matt, you think leaders lie a lot. Is it possible, they thought it would work, and said so?
Yes it is possible they thought that.
However since there was no history or evidence to suggest that it would, to state that it would was at best overly optimisitc.

When the later data, from earlier this year, showed that it would NOT work to stop the pandemic, to continue to spread misinformation is no longer "overly optimistic", it's lying. They are in a position to know, they have access to the data. If they're still saying things that they know or ought to know are false, they're lying.

even now, aren’t they saying it helps to reduce spread and prevent serious illness?
Yes, and it does prevent serious illness, and for a time reduces spread.
But it's well known for a long time that it won't end the pandemic.

i think it’s well established that the vaccines aren’t a cure or 100% effective at stopping transmission. Are there leaders saying otherwise?
“A one-dose summer sets us up for a two-dose fall, when we’ll be able to talk about going back to school, back to work, and back to more normality,” said the prime minister.
 

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“A one-dose summer sets us up for a two-dose fall, when we’ll be able to talk about going back to school, back to work, and back to more normality,” said the prime minister.

I don’t see a problem with that statement. We went back to school …..many went back to work in industries that were closed…..and we returned to More normality.

I don’t see that as lying.
 

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Did we though?
We had one dose summer
Segregation Fall
We are set up for '3rd dose, 4th lockdown' winter
'4th time is the charm spring'
'fifth will do the trick' summer, etc.

Back to normal :D
Multiple times it has been said that vaccines will end the pandemic. Trudeau said that as recently as october - yeah, that is a lie
 

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I was always curious what countries like Austria are trying to achieve.
'We got rise in cases guys, how do we stop it'
'Uh, I got an idea! - let's piss of millions of people'

And next day 100,000 Austrians are on the street marching and yelling.
That will sure stop the spread.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #7,018 ·
Covid will take care of the anti-restriction mob. Give it about.....2 weeks.
 
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“A one-dose summer sets us up for a two-dose fall, when we’ll be able to talk about going back to school, back to work, and back to more normality,” said the prime minister.

I don’t see a problem with that statement. We went back to school …..many went back to work in industries that were closed…..and we returned to More normality.

I don’t see that as lying.
The school policies in the fall were the same as in the spring, at least in Ontario.

Also as we go back to "more normality" we're entering yet another wave, because the current vaccine isn't enough to stop the pandemic, and they knew that from the start.
 

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The school policies in the fall were the same as in the spring, at least in Ontario.

Also as we go back to "more normality" we're entering yet another wave, because the current vaccine isn't enough to stop the pandemic, and they knew that from the start.
I’ll respectfully disagree. There’s a lot more extra curricular going on in Ontario schools this year vs. Spring.

and if they knew from the start, I don’t think they ever declared that the vaccine would end the pandemic. I just think your insistence that govt is constantly lying is a bit of a stretch.
 
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