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No.

But people die everyday, my friend.
... figures. Yeah, people "die" everyday ... just like "stats" you read in the newspaper ... until you actually SEE it with your own eyes to be convinced otherwise.
 

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I mean... What do we have? 20 people out of 37 million dying per day? It's really not a lot. It's honestly nothing.

It's sad to say, but that is life. People die. People die from ignorance, negligence, mistakes, choices, accidents, natural causes, etc...

Have you been to a hospital? I've been to a couple since covid. Didn't seem slammed to me. I also had a family member require life threatening surgery a little while ago and they were able to get it...

Of course. This is anecdotal. I have no idea what is actually happening, how many beds are available, etc. But the news and media isn't exactly my most trusted source for information at the moment.

So, I really have no idea.
I can't argue with your observations. I have been to the hospital and they seem to be coping rather OK as well, of course, I don't think I would expect them to be falling apart at the seems visually, even when they should be. They are professionals, after all.

I look at it a little differently. I find it highly unlikely Premiers like Jason Kenny or Doug Ford would actually shut down most businesses if they were not genuinely concerned with hospital capacity. That is quite a drastic step for a couple of pro business guys like them. So I kind of have to believe Covid was causing a real problem.

I agree, Covid was never overly dangerous from a numerical perspective, but it was rather dangerous to specific groups. You of course were not in that group, but your parents certainly are.

You will get Covid and so will your parents. The virus is all over the planet. There is no way to avoid it. I will get it as well. I also agree that the odds are you will probably all live but the certainty of that is less for your parents then yourself and a couple of vaccine shots would certainly help tremendously when your time comes. It will definitely reduce your time of recovery by weeks. No matter how much I don't like the vaccine in me, I am not sure I want all that virus in me that long either. I have to assume the virus is the bigger health risk.

Anyway, thanks for your reply. Good luck.
 

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... this part sums it all.
I guess you just prefer to be a dick.
But that is your right. ;)

... but then you truly believe your chances of catching Covid and then not dying is "nil=zero", then by all means stay un-vaccinated. But I'm still curious as to what's that you "believe in, that you have to stand up for"? All I see is pure stubbornness and this is sad too, considering how young you are.
You think it's sad that I'm standing up for it?

I literally have taken no precautions.
I have been having one night stands. Meeting new people. Going out. I don't even sanitize my hands after I pump gas, what an outrage!

It's been 1.5 years.
If I haven't caught it after 1.5 years, why would I get the vaccine now? Lol.
 

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I guess you just prefer to be a dick.
But that is your right. ;)



You think it's sad that I'm standing up for it?

I literally have taken no precautions.
I have been having one night stands. Meeting new people. Going out. I don't even sanitize my hands after I pump gas, what an outrage!

It's been 1.5 years.
If I haven't caught it after 1.5 years, why would I get the vaccine now? Lol.
... now we're getting somewhere.

I'm a dick and what are you who has literally taken no precautions? A Spreader? Not just Covid but STDs ... care to brag some more?

Lay it all out so everyone on this forum gets to know who really KaeJS is. I really like to see how tough this "rebel" is.

Btw, your one-night stand / dump on a bimbo is nothing new ... heard of that years ago.
 

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... now we're getting somewhere.

I'm a dick and what are you who has literally taken no precautions? A Spreader? Not just Covid but STDs ... care to brag some more?

Lay it all out so everyone on this forum gets to know who really KaeJS is. I really like to see how tough this "rebel" is.

Btw, your one-night stand / dump on a bimbo is nothing new ... heard of that years ago.
Quite the assumptions with your post.

You sound like a grumpy old boomer.
 

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Actually, the more I think about it...

I'm not even sure I've ever seen a positive post from you on this forum.

You also like to take cryptic jabs at people just like humble_pie. Is she still around these parts? I bet you two would get along great.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6,247 · (Edited)
People going into a hospital won't notice a lot of changes. The lobby looks the same. The cafeteria may look the same. There aren't doctors and nurses running around all over. The elevators still go up and down. People still go in and out.

The COVID patients are isolated from all other patients. If you go to that area.........you will see some things you wished you hadn't.

Nurses and doctors having patients say goodbye to their families before they are put to sleep and intubated......often for weeks or months or they may never wake up again.

Doctors calling loved ones to tell them their loved one has passed away. Sons, daughters, parents, grandparents. You won't see the doctor with head in hand and watery eyes wondering when it will all end and how much longer they can do this every day.

You won't see the nurses bundle up the patients who have died to take to the morgue. You won't see patients gasping for breath and clawing the air while nurses try to calm them down. You won't see nurses frantically trying to start an IV to give the patient medications, but having problems finding a usable vein.

You won't see patients being fed through IV tubes and soiling themselves. You won't see the nurses trying to make a fresh clean bed under their lifeless bodies.

You won't see the doctors and nurses trying to revive a patient suffering a heart attack, by putting electricity through their body or jamming a long needle through their rib bones to inject the heart directly with medication. And yes, from what I have read they believe the patients do feel the pain.....but at least it is a momentary increase in brain wave patterns.......thank goodness for that.

You won't see any of that and be grateful that you won't.

But just because you don't see it when you enter a hospital, doesn't mean it isn't all happening where you aren't allowed to wander.

Maybe if people saw more of it their minds would change, but at this point as mentioned it has been over a year and minds are made up.
 

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Quite the assumptions with your post.
... no assumption there - your post confirmed (aka coming directly from your mouth) the walls that whisper on this forum/internet.

You sound like a grumpy old boomer.
... call me what you want but that's a reflection of the respect that I have for folks (inherently older) that have lots of life (real, not from the movies or internet forums) experience.
 

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Actually, the more I think about it...

I'm not even sure I've ever seen a positive post from you on this forum.
.. what/why do you care since I'm a dick.

You also like to take cryptic jabs at people just like humble_pie. Is she still around these parts? I bet you two would get along great.
... no, humble_pie is from Quebec and I'm from Ontario. And no, we're not buddies nor do I share the same writing style as her or your allegations of "crytic jabs at people". And no, I don't know where she is - or are you missing her?
 

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People going into a hospital won't notice a lot of changes. The lobby looks the same. The cafeteria may look the same. There aren't doctors and nurses running around all over. The elevators still go up and down. People still go in and out.

The COVID patients are isolated from all other patients. If you go to that floor.........you will see some things you wished you hadn't.

Nurses and doctors having patients say goodbye to their families before they are put to sleep and intubated......often for weeks or months or they may never wake up again.

Doctors calling loved ones to tell them their loved one has passed away. Sons, daughters, parents, grandparents. You won't see the doctor with head in hand and watery eyes wondering when it will all end and how much longer they can do this every day.

You won't see the nurses bundle up the patients who have died to take to the morgue. You won't see patients gasping for breath and clawing the air while nurses try to calm them down. You won't see nurses frantically trying to start an IV to give the patient medications, but having problems finding a usable vein.

You won't see patients being fed through IV tubes and soiling themselves. You won't see the nurses trying to make a fresh clean bed under their lifeless bodies.

Naw.......you won't see any of that and be grateful for it.

Maybe if people saw more of it their minds would change, but at this point as mentioned it has been over a year and minds are made up.
... it's okay sags. People have a right not to be vaccinated, not to see reality because those "scenes only happens in the movies", and "to some one else".
 

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... no assumption there - your post confirmed (aka coming directly from your mouth) the walls that whisper on this forum/internet.

... call me what you want but that's a reflection of the respect that I have for folks (inherently older) that have lots of experience.
Actually, quite a lot of assumptions.

You don't know the medical history of my partners or myself. You don't know if I used protection or not. But suddenly now I'm not only a covid spreader but an STD spreader, as well?

I guess I should not live my life at all, for the sake of other people. Right?

I think you are not understanding, or maybe you just don't want to understand. It is not my job to vaccinate or stop living how I want to because the majority of people think I should. Regardless of how my actions and the way I live make you feel, it's ultimately a "you" problem.

I am sorry for those people who have lost their lives. It truly is sad.

At the same time, since you're such a martyr, why do you not give all your money and devote your time to helping poorer countries like Africa? Since you are such a great person in society and you make me out to be such a selfish rebel. What is it that you are doing for the world?

Do you want a pat on the back or a gold star for getting a vaccine?
 

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My parents are also unvaxxed.
As are most of my friends.
My social circle largely believes covid is blown out of proportion and a bunch of BS. They wouldn't really be in my social circle if they didn't think like me, would they? So I have no qualms about not getting the vaccine for the sake of others, and I definitely, definitely have no qualms about not getting it for the sake of strangers. Not after people are publicly saying I should pay for my own ICU or healthcare costs lol. I have been paying into the system my whole life. It is my right to use that healthcare. But I guess it's fine if people smoke their whole life and then they need cancer treatment? They don't have to pay? That's cool? Cool. Makes a lot of sense.

If they don't want unvaxxed people at restaurants or whatever, then so be it. I won't go.

I refuse to do something by force. It is my right to not take the vaccine. I do not agree with any of this. If they want to create a two tier society, then I will live with that. I am sticking to my guns on this one. I believe it is extremely wrong.
Interesting, my co worker said the similar things. Their mom was in a care home and caught it early on, and was fine (though she did end up in the hospital). They ended up catching it too, (they don't take any precautions) and was fine. They believed it was over blown too, and had natural immunity so didn't vax. So here they are last weekend, their caught it, in less than 48 hours is in ICU. My coworker received a call to say good bye over the phone. He's still in ICU right now, he may or may not make it. On the other side, my friends who have taken all the precautions was just told their husbandS surgery was cancelled.

I asked my coworker if they believe it wasn't so bad and did they wish their friends had been vaccinated? They said, 'Yeah'. So I asked if they were going to get vaccinated themselves and tell their friends to also or they still think that it's not so bad.

The regret that they feel is awful, however too late. i heard them say people die all the time, I already had Covid, and am fine. When it’s someone you know personally like a parent, those words aren’t what you are thinking, One side of me wanted to remind them of the heartless words they said, but I am not heartless. I just wished them luck and hope they are out soon one way or another.

i personally really like your shirt, I wish all anti vaxxers wore one. Then I could easily avoid them. just as an anti vaxer does have the right mot to get vaccinated (which I understand it is their body), I want the same rights to avoid them.
 

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Actually, quite a lot of assumptions.

You don't know the medical history of my partners or myself. You don't know if I used protection or not. But suddenly now I'm not only a covid spreader but an STD spreader, as well?
... from your post #6243:

I literally have taken no precautions.
I have been having one night stands. Meeting new people. Going out. I don't even sanitize my hands after I pump gas, what an outrage!
I guess I should not live my life at all, for the sake of other people. Right?
... does that sound like a responsible person?

I think you are not understanding, or maybe you just don't want to understand. It is not my job to vaccinate or stop living how I want to because the majority of people think I should. Regardless of how my actions and the way I live make you feel, it's ultimately a "you" problem.
... seems more like you don't want to understand nor do you care to understand because you've just concluded that it is a "you" problem. Ie. it's not your problem that you choose not to be vaccinated and I=Beaver101 has a problem with that. I could care less if you vaccinate or not if this wasn't an "infectious" disease. What you have failed to realize this is not a "you or me" problem, this is a "our" problem or back to original saying "We are ALL in it together", meaning everyone one of us, not just you or me.

I am sorry for those people who have lost their lives. It truly is sad.
... talk cost nothing.

At the same time, since you're such a martyr, why do you not give all your money and devote your time to helping poorer countries like Africa? Since you are such a great person in society and you make me out to be such a selfish rebel. What is it that you are doing for the world?

Do you want a pat on the back or a gold star for getting a vaccine?
... I'm flattered you call me a martyr but then I don't qualify since I'm a dick. And I don't need a pat in the back nor a gold star for being vaccinated since every responsible human being with a conscience (plenty on this forum) didn't either for being vaccinated. I'm no more special than any of them.

PS: I'm guessing you didn't see the shrink as suggested awhile back from your thread "I can't stand it any longer with this pandemic!!!!"
 

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Just as vaccine does not stop infection from all possible exposure situations, natural infection does not either. Natural infection is even more problematic because you have no idea of the dose of infection that your body decided to build a defense to. So although both vaccine and natural infection are protective, vaccine is definitely the better way to go, if for no other reason then it gives you a better ability to know the protection you have and don't have.

That said, both natural infection PLUS vaccine seems to be the Cadillac of protection and hopefully soon we should have some better data on it. I am thinking it should be enough to kill most of the breakthrough infections and drop the ability to transmit this pestilence down to percentage numbers nearing zero. They could probably start putting together some of that data now but I am thinking (maybe hoping) that the reason for the delay is you can't calculate the probability of infection or transmission when you don't have any. If that is the case I would like to think someone has started to notice that.
 

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If that is the case I would like to think someone has started to notice that.
... I'll believe it when I see it - the infection numbers are trending down, down, down to below 100 (not being greedy) but I don't seeing it happening anytime soon. We'll be lucky to see that mid-next year (2022) PROVIDED another deadly variant doesn't emerge.
 

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You also have 13 times higher change of infection after vaccine than after natural protection.
So yes, you are gambling with a dose, but you are also getting significantly better protection against any variants.

This news is phenomenal. It means that Oakes test fails and you can't limit rights of people with natural immunity simply for not being immunized.


SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees had a 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously infected, when the first event (infection or vaccination) occurred during January and February of 2021. The increased risk was significant (P<0.001) for symptomatic disease as well. When allowing the infection to occur at any time before vaccination (from March 2020 to February 2021), evidence of waning natural immunity was demonstrated, though SARS-CoV-2 naïve vaccinees had a 5.96-fold (95% CI, 4.85 to 7.33) increased risk for breakthrough infection and a 7.13-fold (95% CI, 5.51 to 9.21) increased risk for symptomatic disease. SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees were also at a greater risk for COVID-19-related-hospitalizations compared to those that were previously infected.
 

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You don't get the consequence of it though.
People with natural protection have better protection for themselves and community than people with full vaccination but no previous infection.
For that reason, the Oakes test is not passed and you can't ignore Charter of Rights and Freedom.
You can't treat people with previous infection and no vaccination any different than people with full vaccination and no previous infection.
 

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For all the Alberta bashing over Covid it is puzzling to see Covid deaths at slightly below 12,000 in Quebec, something like 8,800 in Ontario, 1,100 in Manitoba and around 2400 in Alberta. On a per 100,000 people basis Alberta has a much lower death rate.
 

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For all the Alberta bashing over Covid it is puzzling to see Covid deaths at slightly below 12,000 in Quebec, something like 8,800 in Ontario, 1,100 in Manitoba and around 2400 in Alberta. On a per 100,000 people basis Alberta has a much lower death rate.
Are you talking about total deaths? You realize that things changed and that most of those deaths were at the start of the pandemic and covid was going through long term care homes. Given the demographics, Quebec and Ontario were obviously hit hardest for that. Not to mention the fact that based on population size, you'll have a lot more people traveling in and out of Quebec and Ontario than Alberta.
The "bashing" you're seeing is about the current situation and the fact that even with the vaccines in play that Alberta cases and hospitalizations are getting as bad as when we DIDN'T have the vaccines. Sure you can disregard the ICU utilization rate, but that's leading to secondary effects, like postponing surgeries: Edmonton man’s surgery cancelled moments before it was set to begin | Globalnews.ca
 
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