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I hope that Macron survives that. He is really pissing off hundreds of thousands of people.
Might end in another Bastille.
Hopefully other authoritarians learn
 

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^ I wonder which other authoritarian(s) can replace Macron and lead the Frenchmen/women out of the pandemic successfully? Without pissing them off again, of course.
 

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Maybe someone who won't be an authoritarian?
Not familiar with each individual politician in France. Not sure what kind of response you expect?
Facts are that Macron single-handedly just created a super-spreader event with 100,000+ people.
 

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Yes their are rising rising numbers of the Delta variant but lets be clear almost ALL of those cases are people who aren't vaccinated. In terms of transmission almost every authority say the risk is very low with fully vaccinated people. The reason is simple. If a vaccinated person becomes infected it is a very mild form and people with a mild form are not a significant source of transmission. Lets remain focused . We are seeing a rise in infections because a significant portion of the population refuses be vaccinated. In regards to Europe I look at their data with a jaundice eye. They used a higher percentage of Astrezenca and I think there are concerns about how effective it is against the Delta variant and other mutations.
 

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Yes their are rising rising numbers of the Delta variant but lets be clear almost ALL of those cases are people who aren't vaccinated. In terms of transmission almost every authority say the risk is very low with fully vaccinated people. The reason is simple. If a vaccinated person becomes infected it is a very mild form and people with a mild form are not a significant source of transmission. Lets remain focused . We are seeing a rise in infections because a significant portion of the population refuses be vaccinated. In regards to Europe I look at their data with a jaundice eye. They used a higher percentage of Astrezenca and I think there are concerns about how effective it is against the Delta variant and other mutations.

And the fact that you don't need to get tested when vaccinated, while you still need a test if not-vaccinated doesn't skew the number of positives?
The infection numbers have always been useless because they have strong correlation with only one variable - amount of tests conducted.
By limiting amount of tests you limit amount of positive tests.
Hell, you can prohibit vaccinated people from getting tested and you will achieve 100% effectiveness in preventing infection :ROFLMAO:
You can also prohibit non-vaccinated people from getting tested and results will show vaccines are absolutely useless.
 

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And the fact that you don't need to get tested when vaccinated, while you still need a test if not-vaccinated doesn't skew the number of positives?
The infection numbers have always been useless because they have strong correlation with only one variable - amount of tests conducted.
By limiting amount of tests you limit amount of positive tests.
Hell, you can prohibit vaccinated people from getting tested and you will achieve 100% effectiveness in preventing infection :ROFLMAO:
You can also prohibit non-vaccinated people from getting tested and results will show vaccines are absolutely useless.
hospitalization rates don't lie.
 

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hospitalization rates don't lie.
I have been saying that entire pandemic.
Yet when I used exactly same argument to show data that government restrictions are useless in decreasing hospitalizations and deaths, some pointed to studies showing infection rates (which seen highest correlation with number of test surprisingly compared to any other factors :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: )
 

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Cases in Texas are surging. Hardly a surprise, since they stupidly relaxed all restrictions, encouraged everything to open up totally, and the governor also banned mask mandates (meaning masks cannot be made mandatory anywhere)

I seem to recall there were some on this forum, maybe it was @zinfit or @Eder who was cheering Texas, saying this was the right way to manage the pandemic. @zinfit you're in Texas right now right? I hope you're staying safe and using a mask to protect yourself.

The 7-day average of cases has about doubled versus the previous week, and hospitalizations are up 47%.


There is also more extensive modeling in this PDF

This model notes that "hospital volumes have risen 89 percent over the past two weeks" and they are projecting hospital loads which exceed the early 2021 surge. The projections also show that the escalation can be extinguished if masks are mandated and business restrictions are brought back.

It would appear that just opening up everything, and encouraging people to ditch masks, doesn't work so great. The % of Texans fully vaccinated is very similar to % of Canadians fully vaccinated. So what they are experiencing can happen here too, if people become reckless and stop being cautious.
 

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The sunbelt season for covid is the hot summer months. It is to hot to be outside so people gather inside and that is the perfect environment for transmission. In a certain way the conditions are similar to our winter. For Texas one must bear in mind that Texas tis facing a hugh surge in illegal migrants. Most aren't vaccinated and something like 30% are testing positive. They apreheld in holding centers for a short while and then are released with an undertaking to appear before an immigration board. I am not sure why anyone would suggest I am anti-mask. I have supported masks from the beginning. The current Texas numbers have a long ways to go before they are comparable to previous peak levels. I would more interested in the hospitalization and death rates. The data might be showing a high percentage of unvaccinated young people . Deaths with this group is extremely rare.
 

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The sunbelt season for covid is the hot summer months. It is to hot to be outside so people gather inside and that is the perfect environment for transmission. In a certain way the conditions are similar to our winter. For Texas one must bear in mind that Texas tis facing a hugh surge in illegal migrants. Most aren't vaccinated and something like 30% are testing positive. They apreheld in holding centers for a short while and then are released with an undertaking to appear before an immigration board.
... guess that Dumpity wall ain't working after-all.

I am not sure why anyone would suggest I am anti-mask. I have supported masks from the beginning.
... not if they're now "banned". You know, it's "unconstitutional" to be "muzzled".

The current Texas numbers have a long ways to go before they are comparable to previous peak levels. I would more interested in the hospitalization and death rates.
... why?

The data might be showing a high percentage of unvaccinated young people . Deaths with this group is extremely rare.
... define "extremely rare" or just that it's not publicized there.


From my POV, the lesson to be learned from Covid is "everyone have the freedom to take their chance(s)".
 

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... guess that Dumpity wall ain't working after-all.

... not if they're now "banned". You know, it's "unconstitutional" to be "muzzled".

... why?

... define "extremely rare" or just that it's not publicized there.

From my POV, the lesson to be learned from Covid is "everyone have the freedom to take their chance(s)".
The British just completed a study on this . The number of young people dying from drowning was 6 times higher then from covid . Since March of 2020 3105 British children have died from all causes. 25 deaths were related to covid. The National Health Service in a recent study concluded that any child under the age of 18 had a 99.995 % chance of surviving covid. In the USA 397 children have died from covid compared to 49000 who have died from other causes.In Canada 14 children have died from covid representing about.01% of all covid deaths. I prefer stats on hospitalizations, ICUs and deaths because they paint a much clearer picture of the problem. I don't think the Texas numbers are anywhere close to previous peak numbers. Before we get carried anyway politicalizing the recent spike in numbers how come Democrat California is experiencing the same spike?
 

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^
Before we get carried anyway politicalizing the recent spike in numbers how come Democrat California is experiencing the same spike?
... then let's move away from the USA altogther and look at a Covid "success" story/country: Australia.

Australia once reveled in being the 'lucky country' on COVID-19. Now weary Aussies 'feel like prisoners'

Now my news source above tells me "what's Australia's problem""now"? Answer: the pandemic ain't over.

For much of 2020, Australia's success in controlling the virus was the envy of the world. By March of that year, as Italian hospitals drowned in cases and the UK dithered about restrictions, Australia decisively closed its borders -- and the tactic initially paid off.

A country of 25 million people, it has recorded just over 900 coronavirus-related deaths since the pandemic began. Its total case numbers are around 32,000 -- a figure the UK is exceeding daily. And its economy has bounced back.

But more than a year on, Australians remain shut inside their gilded cage, relying on a series of short, sharp lockdowns to quell an outbreak of the highly-contagious Delta variant.

More than half the population -- including those in state capitals Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide -- are again living under lockdown measures following dozens of new cases.

While other Western countries surge ahead with their vaccination rollouts and begin to reopen, Australia's has been achingly slow. Just over 11% of Australians are fully vaccinated -- the lowest of the OECD's 38 countries.

"Fortress Australia" is now facing uncomfortable questions about just how far this island sanctuary is willing to go to protect itself from external threats -- including raising the drawbridge to its own citizens. ...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5,394 ·
I noticed this comment......which would indicate that opening up indoor dining is likely going to increase the spread of the virus.

The pattern I am picking up is when people move indoors for heating or cooling. In the winter, folks in the north move indoors for heat and the virus easily transmits. In the summer, folks in the southwest/southeast move indoors for cooling. Virus expands.
 

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^ Right. So blaming this on the unvax, is at best bad journalism, but more realistically, its them lying.

As for indoor dining, doubt that will cause much issue. Natural immunity, at least for the healthy people seems to be the only shot we have at attaining herd immunity.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5,396 ·
It is the unvaxxed who are getting sick and clogging up hospitals. The statistic today is 97% of the infected in hospitals are the un-vaccinated.

I listened to a doctor in the US in an ER/ICU hospital and he said he sees new patients coming in with every shift he does. He says he has yet to see one person who was fully vaccinated. His "rate" of unvaccinated people was 100%. He also talks to doctors all over the US and said they are seeing the same thing.

So.......do they believe their lying eyes ?
 

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It is the unvaxxed who are getting sick and clogging up hospitals. The statistic today is 97% of the infected in hospitals are the un-vaccinated.

I listened to a doctor in the US in an ER/ICU hospital and he said he sees new patients coming in with every shift he does. He says he has yet to see one person who was fully vaccinated. His "rate" of unvaccinated people was 100%. He also talks to doctors all over the US and said they are seeing the same thing.

So.......do they believe their lying eyes ?

Theres lots of evidence about this being false, I've posted some of it.

I've seen many doctors post that they are seeing numbers that reflect those in UK and Israel. IE- Vax isn't working.

So, do they believe their lying eyes?

Who would have more incentive and pressure to lie, between these opposing obseverations?
 

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Exactly. It was posted multiple times here, with sources, that the policy is not to test vaccinated people.
If you don't test, then you don't have positive results.
It is as simple as that, yet some choose to ignore this fact as it doesn't fit their narrative.
 

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It is the unvaxxed who are getting sick and clogging up hospitals. The statistic today is 97% of the infected in hospitals are the un-vaccinated.

I listened to a doctor in the US in an ER/ICU hospital and he said he sees new patients coming in with every shift he does. He says he has yet to see one person who was fully vaccinated. His "rate" of unvaccinated people was 100%. He also talks to doctors all over the US and said they are seeing the same thing.

So.......do they believe their lying eyes ?
No, basically, conspiracy theorists are trying to say that when you show up to the hospital exhibiting covid symptoms, they ask if you are vaccinated. If yes, they just send you away, without testing and don't treat you so you don't count you in the official count. But apparently not all hospitals play the same game, so sometimes, someone who says they're vaccinated will get tested and that gets counted. That's why you still get that fraction of the percent of people with covid who were vaccinated.

Yes, conspiracy theorists are twisting themselves up in knots to convince themselves that they cracked the code.
 

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Yes, conspiracy theorists are twisting themselves up in knots to convince themselves that they cracked the code.
I can't believe the conspiracy theorists get this much airtime.

Like most conspiracy theories, there is an element of truth of course. Yes it's true that vaccines don't prevent all illnesses. There still are fully vaccinated people who catch COVID, and some will even get very sick, and some will die. This is why I keep saying ... we must keep wearing masks in high risk public settings, because the pandemic isn't over. We are all still in danger and cases are skyrocketing in the US right now.

On the other hand, there is no question that vaccination dramatically reduces the severity of the illness. Your probability of death decreases substantially once you are vaccinated.

I have said since day one that I am not worried about getting sick. I'm worried about ending up in the hospital connected to tubes, or DEATH. Getting vaccinated reduces the probability of these worst case scenarios and this is confirmed by all medical evidence so far.
 
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