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While all you people think you're high and mighty and feel good about yourselves for "doing the right thing" and "protecting your neighbours"... I hope you all take a step back and realize you are destroying people in other ways.

People are losing their livelihoods, families, loved ones, friends... They are losing their hope, their dreams. They are losing TIME. Valuable time.

The lockdowns need to stop. This is not good for anyone. Whoever believes that these lockdowns should continue is playing with themselves.

We need to open everything and stop all the rules right now.
 

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While all you people think you're high and mighty and feel good about yourselves for "doing the right thing" and "protecting your neighbours"... I hope you all take a step back and realize you are destroying people in other ways.

People are losing their livelihoods, families, loved ones, friends... They are losing their hope, their dreams. They are losing TIME. Valuable time.

The lockdowns need to stop. This is not good for anyone. Whoever believes that these lockdowns should continue is playing with themselves.

We need to open everything and stop all the rules right now.
The ignorance in wanting to prolong them in the interest of adding a factor of safety "so we can know for sure" is just so fucking tone deaf to what people have gone through.
 

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While all you people think you're high and mighty and feel good about yourselves for "doing the right thing" and "protecting your neighbours"... I hope you all take a step back and realize you are destroying people in other ways.

People are losing their livelihoods, families, loved ones, friends... They are losing their hope, their dreams. They are losing TIME. Valuable time.

The lockdowns need to stop. This is not good for anyone. Whoever believes that these lockdowns should continue is playing with themselves.

We need to open everything and stop all the rules right now.
Life is too short and not only us who has feeling that we lost 2 years of our life, but also our kids!
 

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That's fair enough gibor. I agree, Ontario didn't need that kind of severity. They should have had easier to follow policies, and more consistent restriction at certain indoor things.

I don't like the way Ontario did it, so you are correct. It was bad policy.

Instead, they should have closed only the very high risk things (indoor restaurants bars, gyms) and also immediately shut down some businesses, such as factories, that had outbreaks. And closely monitor those.

Then they should have allowed most retail to operate normally, just with mask requirements, and also selective shutdowns with outbreaks. They did not have to close down everything like they did.

That was lazy policy.
I'm OK with "immediately shut down some businesses, such as factories, that had outbreaks. And closely monitor those." , it's also OK regarding restaurants and bars.
Don't you thing that it's extremely dumb to allow erotic massage parlors and horse tracking to open, and ban indoor dining and recreation (like our volleyball league)?! imho, they should to introduce "vaccination pass" and give more opportunities t fully vaccinated people.... Thus government will also encourage mre people to get vaccinated
 

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COVID-19 outbreak linked to Oakville gym operating under physical therapy exemption
Elena De Luigi, The Canadian Press Last Updated Wednesday, July 7, 2021 4:06PM EDT

An Ontario gym operating using a physical therapy exemption has been ordered to shut down after being linked to a COVID-19 outbreak that could force as many as 400 people to self-isolate.
Halton Region Public Health said it is aware of 15 cases of the highly transmissible Delta variant of COVID-19 linked to the Muscle HQ gym in Oakville, Ont.

Gyms across Ontario cannot currently offer indoor services due to public health restrictions, but Muscle HQ had been operating by allowing members with doctors' notes that cite the need for physical therapy to train.


“It is a great tragedy that there was an outbreak,” Muscle HQ co-owner Ali Siddiqui said in an emailed statement to The Canadian Press. “We take great pride in being able to provide a facility for the disabled population to perform their prescribed therapy, all while being in full compliance of regulations while doing so.”

Despite gyms being closed to the general public, Halton public health said facilities providing sports and recreational fitness activities for people with disabilities to receive physical therapy can be open under the Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act. However, they are only allowed to operate if the person has a doctor's note and if their physical therapy is not available elsewhere.

Halton public health said it officially declared the outbreak on June 28 after the case count rose to more than five. It then notified of owners on Friday to a forced closure of their facility for 14 days due to the number of cases linked to the gym.

Within 48 hours of the health unit's outbreak declaration, Siddiqui said “several cases” were identified. The health unit said there are more than 400 high-risk contacts who must quarantine for 14 days from their last exposure date, unless they are fully vaccinated.


It said all members who were in the gym the previous week would be considered as a high-risk, close contact.

The public health unit said it's worried about close contacts because they were indoors with “limited masking and lack of supervision” to make sure people followed physical distancing and capacity limits.

Contact tracing at Muscle HQ is ongoing, and more cases outside the initial exposure period of June 21 to July 3 are being found.

“These gym members may also be at higher risk for COVID-19 complications given that each person would have been required to provide written instruction from a qualified regulated health professional regarding their physical or mental disability to allow them to use the gym,” the health unit said in a statement. “We are urging these individuals to isolate and get tested for their own well-being as well as for any other vulnerable people they may be living with.”

Siddiqui said in a video message posted to Facebook that the first case tested positive on June 25. Two other members received positive results the next day, forcing owners to shut down the gym for 72 hours the gym to allow for deep cleaning and fogging.

“We contacted public health immediately to notify them of the cases and to provide them with contact tracing information,” Siddiqui said. “A mass email was sent out to all club members as well on this day, letting them know of the potential exposure and to get tested.”

Ontario Health Minister Christine Elliott told reporters at a press conference Wednesday morning that since the gym remained open during the pandemic, the Delta variant is now “circulating very widely” amongst those who use the facility.

She described the situation as a cautionary tale against reopening the province too quickly.
“We want to avoid a fourth wave. We don't want to have to move back a step,” Elliott said. “We want to make sure that we are completely ready and able to move forward based on the expert advice that ½we're) receiving from our chief medical officer of health and all of the advisors from the various committees.”

Jim Barry, Oakville's director of municipal enforcement services, said in an emailed statement that the town received “a number of complaints” about Muscle HQ and investigated them on multiple occasions, with the most recent being related to capacity limits on June 19.

“At that time and during previous visits, the gym was in compliance with the provincial regulations under the Reopening Ontario Act,” Barry said.

So far, Siddiqui said he has not received a municipal fine and he is working with the health unit to determine a reopening date.

“We are confident that with guidance from public health, we will again be able to reopen with even more stringent policies in place to ensure that our members get the therapy they need, while also ensuring that our members and the community at large remain safe.”
Imagine being "disabled" and getting Covid. Pretty amazing there is a potential 400 people that needs self-isolation now ... hopefully they were vaccinated.
 

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Scientific director of Ontario’s science table says province not ready to enter Step 3, calls Delta variant ‘completely different beast’

Last Updated Wednesday, July 7, 2021 9:03PM EDT

The scientific director of the Ontario Science Advisory Table says the province is “absolutely not” ready to move into the next step of the reopening plan due to the spread of the more transmissible Delta variant.

Dr. Peter Juni described the COVID-19 variant that first emerged in India as a “completely different beast.


"If you have uncontrolled growth with (the) Alpha (variant) after four weeks, we have roughly 6,000 cases. But after the Delta, you have around 60,000 cases. This shows you how careful we need to be," Juni told CP24 Wednesday evening.


"What we now need is roughly 75 per cent of the eligible population fully vaccinated and we need to see how step two of the reopening works out. We only see that roughly after two and a half weeks after we started with step two. So, we need to wait now, be patient and not get ahead of ourselves. It's an absolute no-go to rush this."

When asked why Ontario's COVID-19 situation is different from other Canadian provinces that have fully reopened, Juni said it's because the Delta variant accounts for about 80 per cent of all new cases in the province.

"The only reason for what we're seeing right now is that we are much more connected to the U.K., therefore we have (the) Delta much earlier than the rest of the provinces, but they will struggle too at a certain time," he said.

Ontario is supposed to remain in Step 2 for at least another 14 days, meaning that a wide swath of indoor venues and businesses, such as gyms and movie theatres, will have to remain close until at least July 20.

...
... for Ontarians. At least this guy ain't from WHO or some selected podcast announcement.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5,347 ·
Yup.........that is what I have been posting.

The new Lambda variant is also spreading rapidly and scientists say it could further deteriorate the effectiveness of the vaccines.

People don't want to accept that it is the virus that dictates the restrictions, and the governments are only following the best advice from the experts.
 

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Zuby made a twitter thread that seems to be resonating with many people questioning what they are seeing around at the world today. I'd say he nailed it.

"@ZubyMusic
20 Things I've Learned (Or Had Confirmed) About Humanity During The 'Pandemic' :

1/
Most people would rather be in the majority, than be right.

2/ At least 20% of the population has strong authoritarian tendencies, which will emerge under the right conditions.

3/ Fear of death is only rivalled by the fear of social disapproval. The latter could be stronger.

4/ Propaganda is just as effective in the modern day as it was 100 years ago. Access to limitless information has not made the average person any wiser.

5/ Anything and everything can and will be politicised by the media, government, and those who trust them.

6/ Many politicians and large corporations will gladly sacrifice human lives if it is conducive to their political and financial aspirations.

7/ Most people believe the government acts in the best interests of the people. Even many who are vocal critics of the government.

8/ Once they have made up their mind, most people would rather to commit to being wrong, than admit they were wrong.

9/ Humans can be trained and conditioned quickly and relatively easily to significantly alter their behaviours - for better or worse.

10/ When sufficiently frightened, most people will not only accept authoritarianism, but demand it.

11/
People who are dismissed as 'conspiracy theorists' are often well researched and simply ahead of the mainstream narrative.

12/ Most people value safety and security more than freedom and liberty, even if said 'safety' is merely an illusion.

13/ Hedonic adaptation occurs in both directions, and once inertia sets in, it is difficult to get people back to 'normal'.

14/ A significant % of people thoroughly enjoy being subjugated.

15/ 'The Science' has evolved into a secular pseudo-religion for millions of people in the West. This religion has little to do with science itself.

16/ Most people care more about looking like they are doing the right thing, rather than actually doing the right thing.

17/ Politics, the media, science, and the healthcare industries are all corrupt, to varying degrees. Scientists and doctors can be bought as easily as politicians.

18/ If you make people comfortable enough, they will not revolt. You can keep millions docile as you strip their rights, by giving them money, food, and entertainment.

19/ Modern people are overly complacent and lack vigilance when it comes to defending their own freedoms from government overreach.

20/ It's easier to fool a person than to convince them that they have been fooled.

Bonus thought: 21/ Most people are fairly compassionate and have good intentions (this is good)
As a result, most people deeply struggle to understand that some people, including our 'leaders', CAN have malicious or perverse intentions (this is bad)."
 

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Here's a Bloomberg article (author is a WSJ editor): Why Brits Should Keep Masking Up

Part of it is copy & pasted below. I am using the same logic myself, and will continue wearing a mask in crowded areas around strangers.
... Brits can congregate without restriction and are free to bin or burn their face masks if they want. Masking up will no longer be required in public spaces or even on public transport.
But everything we know about this virus suggests proceeding with caution. Keeping a mask mandate in certain crowded settings costs little and can help reduce virus transmission, especially going into the autumn and winter. It would also reinforce a culture of safety. Instead, mask-wearing is likely to become more politicized.
It’s fine to take the calculated risk that restrictions can be lifted. As my colleague Sam Fazeli has noted, at least the government has kept the door open to reimposing some restrictions. But to talk about “freedom” is to tempt fate. Britain still has one of the highest Covid infection rates, with a 51% increase in hospital admissions in the seven days to July 4. One-third of adults are not yet fully vaccinated.
Hospitals are also struggling with gargantuan backlogs of surgeries and other treatments, a growing stream of Covid patients and high rates of burnout among doctors and other staff. One teaching hospital in Leeds recently had to cancel major cancer surgeries because the rising Covid workload has had knock-on effects. And this is happening during the summer, typically a quieter season for the NHS.
On Wednesday, medical journal The Lancet published an article by 100 top scientists arguing that the government is “embarking on a dangerous and unethical experiment” in the wholesale lifting of restrictions on July 19. Such a move, they write, will allow unmitigated virus transmission, especially among unvaccinated children and young people, that will likely accelerate when schools reopen in the fall.
 

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Yup.........that is what I have been posting.

The new Lambda variant is also spreading rapidly and scientists say it could further deteriorate the effectiveness of the vaccines.

People don't want to accept that it is the virus that dictates the restrictions, and the governments are only following the best advice from the experts.
What you don't realize is that the various experts have different opinions.
also we have to consider all the trade offs.

How much suffering should we inflict on people to save a few people from COVID?
That's a very important question, and one some people are trying to pretend doesn't exist.
 

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Bout a good time to bring in Ivermectin and get back to normal life then? For those still scared, feel free to self lockdown.

But don't worry, if Ivermectin saves the day, or the virus naturally gets weaker and fades away (as it seems to be doing), that vaccines will take credit for it either way.
 

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Ontario moving to Step 3 of summer COVID-19 reopening plan on July 16
Ontario will move to the third step of its summer reopening plan on July 16, reopening indoor dining, indoor fitness activity, cinemas and nightclubs for the first time in months.

The Ford cabinet met on Friday morning to confirm the measures, which will allow indoor dining to resume across the province (except in Waterloo Region) with capacity limited to the number of people who can maintain physical distancing of two metres.

The relaxed measures will take effect at 12:01 a.m. on Friday morning, the government said in a news release.

They also confirmed the existence of a fourth step in the reopening plan, where “the vast majority of public health and workplace safety measures, including capacity limits for indoor and outdoor settings and limits for social gatherings, will be lifted.”

They say Ontario will remain in Step 3 for at least 21 days, and until 80 per cent of Ontarians 12+ have received a first dose of a COVID-19 vaccine and 75 per cent have received a second.

As of Friday, 78 per cent of Ontarians age 12 and up have received a first dose and 50 per cent have received a second.

As of July 16, all retailers will also be allowed to accept as many patrons as they can fit while maintaining physical distancing of two metres.

Cinemas, amusement parks and indoor fitness facilities will be allowed to reopen at 50 per cent capacity.

Indoor gatherings will be permitted with up to 25 people indoors or 100 people outdoors.

Nightclubs and restaurants with dance floors will be restricted to 50 per cent of pre-pandemic capacity, up to the number of patrons where two metres of physical distancing can be maintained.

Also, professional sports venues will be able to accept up to 15,000 spectators seated outdoors, or 75 per cent of their pre-pandemic capacity. Indoors, they will be allowed to accept 1,000 spectators or half of pre-pandemic capacity, whichever is smaller.

Elsewhere in sport, all sport activity with contact will be allowed to resume.

Personal care outlets will also be allowed to resume services that require the removal of masks.

Places of worship will be allowed to accept as many people as they can provided two metre distancing can be maintained.

Last month, Chief Medical Officer of Health Dr. Kieran Moore seemed to suggest the province would not move to Step 3 ahead of schedule, as he said they needed time to analyze case trends in the wake of the Delta variant.

The scientific director of Ontario’s COVID-19 Science Advisory Table, Dr. Peter Jüni, echoed his concern, saying this week that the province was not ready for Step 3 because of the increased transmission capabilities of the Delta variant.


In Toronto and Peel Region, cinemas, indoor dining and gyms have been closed since Oct. 2020.

Strip clubs, bathhouses and sex clubs will also be permitted to reopen in Step 3.

Strip clubs will be restricted to the number of patrons where two metres of physical distancing can be maintained, with a three metre gap between patrons and performers.

Bathhouses and sex clubs will be restricted to 50 per cent of pre-pandemic capacity up to the number of patrons where two metres of physical distancing can be maintained.

Other cultural sites such as museums, science centres and aquariums will be limited to 50 per cent of pre-pandemic capacity.

Casinos will also reopen at 50 per cent of pre-pandemic capacity.
.. while this will be welcomed, the "2 metres distance" rule/guideline is laughable.

For a start, I wonder if employers are going to 2 metres distancing their employees? o_O
 

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Discussion Starter · #5,353 · (Edited)
They throw the 2 meter rule in so when there are inevitable outbreaks they can say people didn't follow the rules so it isn't the Ford government's fault.

Alberta's Jason Kenney tried to use the excuse before but it didn't help his poll numbers, and now he is demanding a 5% pay cut for nurses.

Every person in Alberta interviewed by the media didn't agree with him and many said nurses should receive a raise.

You gotta wonder about some of these Premier's decisions.
 

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For a start, I wonder if employers are going to 2 metres distancing their employees? o_O
I'm gonna say yes? I mean, they already were, to the best of my knowledge. I took a retail job for about 6 months last year and we were told to maintain distancing, and the lunch rooms had the seats spaced out 2 metres apart and tape on the floor to show you where you were allowed to sit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5,355 · (Edited)
I agree totally that most companies are trying their best to keep everyone safe.......but some of the employees not so much.

At my wife's retirement home, she says some employees are always skirting the rules and they are working with vulnerable older people.

The company can't force vaccinations or reveal who is vaccinated and who refused. The residents don't know who is vaccinated and who isn't.

As a result nobody in the residence can know how exposed they are to Covid infection.

I think that most people with a loved one in a retirement or LTC home would want assurances that the people working there are vaccinated.

But as it stands.......there are no such assurances. I don't think people know that. I think they assume that everyone is fully vaccinated.
 

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I'm gonna say yes? I mean, they already were, to the best of my knowledge. I took a retail job for about 6 months last year and we were told to maintain distancing, and the lunch rooms had the seats spaced out 2 metres apart and tape on the floor to show you where you were allowed to sit.
... but how about a rehab gym/hair salon/ or a fast food joint? I can't see how employees can be 2 metres distanced once capacity goes up. Add to that risk is "unmasking". Nothing said about that in the Stage 3 Reopening plan.
 

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I agree totally that most companies are trying their best to keep everyone safe.......but some of the employees not so much.

At my wife's retirement home, she says some employees are always skirting the rules and they are working with vulnerable older people.

The company can't force vaccinations or reveal who is vaccinated and who refused. The residents don't know who is vaccinated and who isn't.

As a result nobody in the residence can know how exposed they are to Covid infection.

I think that most people with a loved one in a retirement or LTC home would want assurances that the people working there are vaccinated.

But as it stands.......there are no such assurances. I don't think people know that. I think they assume that everyone is fully vaccinated.
... are you serious? Has those responsible for LTC safety not learned anything - by now? As an alternative, I thought those vaccine-refusing frontline healthcare workers were going to get "some education" on the merits of the vaccine at the very least. Does this not apply to LTCs?

Changing musical chairs from Merrilee to Rod doesn't change the fact that LTC residents (and its workers) remain vulnerable.
 

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... but how about a rehab gym/hair salon/ or a fast food joint? I can't see how employees can be 2 metres distanced once capacity goes up. Add to that risk is "unmasking". Nothing said about that in the Stage 3 Reopening plan.
I listened to the press conference today and he said masking requirements will remain in place during stage 3. He was unwilling to speculate on when they might be lifted.

I think hair salons should be pretty easy to maintain distancing between employees, I think the chairs are normally about 2m apart anyway. Of course the stylist can't maintain distance from the customer given the nature of the work.

I agree it seems like it would be challenging in fast food, even without capacity going up (not a lot of room behind those counters).
 

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^ That's why I said priorly the "2 meters apart" rule is laughable. Good to hear that at least the mask requirements will remain in place as impractical the 2 meters apart rule is.
 

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