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How is no lockdowns and no business closures at any point aggressive restrictions? As a citizen of Taiwan you were free to do whatever you wanted.
No hotel quarantines either.
I will take those over what Canada has been doing anytime!
And despite never closing businesses, never having lockdowns, they fared beautifully. Go figure
 

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How is no lockdowns and no business closures at any point aggressive restrictions? As a citizen of Taiwan you were free to do whatever you wanted.
No hotel quarantines either.
I will take those over what Canada has been doing anytime!
And despite never closing businesses, never having lockdowns, they fared beautifully. Go figure
They had strict and appropriate restrictions.
They closed the borders and put everyone in a 14 day hotel quarantine starting in March 2020.

If they had cases inside the country they aggressively contact traced and isolated people.

They never had broad COVID19 spread, so Broad control measures were not required.
 

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They had community transmission, yet they didn't act like dumbasses and shut everything down, but instead simply introduced contract tracing.
Governments in multiple jurisdictions panicked, turned their brains off, and ended up killing their own citizens by putting in ineffective and damaging restrictions. Just look at excess deaths among <45 year olds in Canada. Scary
The worst thing is, they continued to do that even though data clearly shows it is ineffective. They did that for political reasons. Despicable
 

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They had community transmission, yet they didn't act like dumbasses and shut everything down, but instead simply introduced contract tracing.
Governments in multiple jurisdictions panicked, turned their brains off, and ended up killing their own citizens by putting in ineffective and damaging restrictions. Just look at excess deaths among <45 year olds in Canada. Scary
The worst thing is, they continued to do that even though data clearly shows it is ineffective. They did that for political reasons. Despicable
They had tiny levels of community level transmission which made contact tracing an effective management tool.

They made a different decision than you, I don't think it was that far off base.

I think if Trudeau took it seriously at the beginning, (like Taiwan) we wouldn't be in this mess
 

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They had tiny levels of community level transmission which made contact tracing an effective management tool.

They made a different decision than you, I don't think it was that far off base.

I think if Trudeau took it seriously at the beginning, (like Taiwan) we wouldn't be in this mess
South Korea had significant amount of super spreader events, significant amount of community transmission.
Yet they never locked down, never closed down businesses. They did much better than Canada did.

Anyway, we can exchange individual examples all we want. Doesn't really change the fact. Data that looks at ALL countries shows that any restrictions after march 2020 were useless and ineffective.
 

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South Korea had significant amount of super spreader events, significant amount of community transmission.
Yet they never locked down, never closed down businesses. They did much better than Canada did.

Anyway, we can exchange individual examples all we want. Doesn't really change the fact. Data that looks at ALL countries shows that any restrictions after march 2020 were useless and ineffective.
I doubt such a study exists. At least it hasn't been posted here.
 

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It has been posted. Not sure if you read it though.
https://fraserinstitute.org/sites/d...VID-19-pandemic-and-response-around-world.pdf
Post with excerpts is on page 257.
All the data and studies are referenced in the report. Feel free to read all of them. There is plenty that state restrictions past first 2-3 months of the pandemic has been useless and damaging.
Page 257 of an 86 page report.

I can accept not very effective and damaging.
Useless, I categorically disagree.
 

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Page 257 of an 86 page report.

I can accept not very effective and damaging.
Useless, I categorically disagree.
Report was previously posted on page 257 of this thread.

Well, data really says it all. Not effective and damaging vs useless. Seems to be the same thing so I will take it!
 

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Report was previously posted on page 257 of this thread.

Well, data really says it all. Not effective and damaging vs useless. Seems to be the same thing so I will take it!
I agree, the data says it all, some restrictions were more effective, and some where less effective.
I haven't seen any contrary data saying that no restrictions were effective.
We all know masks are effective, vaccines are effective, distancing is effective.
 

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While Ontario (a province) in Canada is trying to open up, mask wearing/mouth/nose/cover up is to stay until at least end of September 2021.

Toronto extends mask wearing, other COVID-19 bylaws until the end of September

And included in the above for the City of Toronto, Ontario:

... Also approved Wednesday is a recommendation by de Villa to conduct a monthly assessment on the spread and impacts of COVID-19 should the bylaws need to end, be extended or amended....
Sounds prudent to me.
 

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@MrMatt @damian13ster

The fact that every time we have a lock down things improve, and every time we lift it, it get worst suggest that this is a ABAB quasi experiment that show lock down is likely to work in stopping our medical system from overloading, as we switch between lockdown (B) and no lockdown (A).

I do agree there are serious side effect with lock down. Lots of businesses goes belly up, suicide and domestic violence go through the roof, many people will die of cancer due to delay treatment, possible permanent impairment of metal development of children as schools are close, and important scientific researches at universities being put on hold to name a few.

Ultimately, we need an independent inquiry right after the pandemic is over to figure out what have happen, and to figure out what should we do to improve our responses in the future.
 

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... Ultimately, we need an independent inquiry right after the pandemic is over to figure out what have happen, and to figure out what should we do to improve our responses in the future.
... I think we should first fire some "experts" who sat on a/the "Pandemic Reponse" panel that was created years ago before wasting more taxpayers $$$ to do a post-mortem.
 

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I think Canada has to think very carefully before rushing to re-open everything.

The delta variant causes 91% of UK infections. The latest numbers from BC showed delta accounts for less than 10% of cases here, and I presume that applies across Canada.

Ontario has projections that delta is soon going to take over in that province and become the dominant strain.

The UK has one of the highest vaccination rates in the world but is still seeing some outbreaks and rates of case growth that are too high. This is very likely due to Delta being less responsive to vaccines.

Here in Canada we don't yet have to deal with delta, but it's coming. Guaranteed. So I'm not a fan of opening back up to 100 person weddings and indoor bars and nightclubs, because we're just going to accelerate the spread of delta, until it eventually becomes all of our cases (like the UK has).

This pandemic isn't over and we might have to shut down again. Everyone should continue to be cautious, and I'm obviously going to keep wearing a mask around strangers (indoors) and minimize my high risk situations, even when I am fully vaccinated.

Meeting with friends and family though... yes of course. No need to stop social contact. I'm saying, let's not be stupid. Keep wearing the mask and avoid unnecessary risks.
 

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The longer we resist effective lock downs to kill off the virus, the more time the virus has to mutate again and again.

The Delta (India) virus is not the last. The Vietnam virus is already in Asia and no doubt more will be coming.

The Vietnam virus is a hybrid of the UK and India viruses.........so that is an important change in the virus mutations.

The answer scientists need to know from China is.........what exactly did they create.
 

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... I think we should first fire some "experts" who sat on a/the "Pandemic Reponse" panel that was created years ago before wasting more taxpayers $$$ to do a post-mortem.
An independent inquiry inherently means finding another panel of expert to investigate, otherwise, such investigation is a sham.

However, as the field of public health is very small, it is unavoidable that the people that investigate will know the people that are being investigated.
 

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I think Canada has to think very carefully before rushing to re-open everything.

The delta variant causes 91% of UK infections. The latest numbers from BC showed delta accounts for less than 10% of cases here, and I presume that applies across Canada.

Ontario has projections that delta is soon going to take over in that province and become the dominant strain.

The UK has one of the highest vaccination rates in the world but is still seeing some outbreaks and rates of case growth that are too high. This is very likely due to Delta being less responsive to vaccines.

Here in Canada we don't yet have to deal with delta, but it's coming. Guaranteed. So I'm not a fan of opening back up to 100 person weddings and indoor bars and nightclubs, because we're just going to accelerate the spread of delta, until it eventually becomes all of our cases (like the UK has).

This pandemic isn't over and we might have to shut down again. Everyone should continue to be cautious, and I'm obviously going to keep wearing a mask around strangers (indoors) and minimize my high risk situations, even when I am fully vaccinated.

Meeting with friends and family though... yes of course. No need to stop social contact. I'm saying, let's not be stupid. Keep wearing the mask and avoid unnecessary risks.
I'm afraid that the problem with UK cases going up , because majority of people got AZ that from beginning wasn't good against variants (I feel bad as I didn't convince my wife to wait for mRNA and skip AZ :(). Some other countries who mostly uses AZ and Chinese crap also have number of cases spiking.
On the other hand, even though UK number of cases are up, deaths are down, for more than a months UK death daily average is in single digits , it's nothing...

But again, look are the most successful country in vaccination, Israel. They have 10 cases per day on average. Whole country has only 218 Covid sick people (and only 36 people have serious condition).
imho, this is because Israel used only Pfizer and Moderna.


With new coronavirus cases dropping to below 20 a day, Israel on Tuesday retired its Green Pass system and will now allow equal access to restaurants, sports events, cultural activities and the like to vaccinated and unvaccinated citizens.
Restrictions on the sizes of gatherings have also been lifted.
The decision came less than three months after Israel, a real-world laboratory for the efficacy of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, pioneered its digitized Green Pass system and became a test case for an inoculated society.

For now, the only remaining pandemic restriction inside the country is a requirement to wear masks in closed public spaces, although that, too, is under discussion by health officials. The main efforts to control the coronavirus are now centered on restrictions for travel in and out of Israel, based on testing and quarantine. Strict limitations remain on the entry of people who are not Israeli citizens.
“The Green Pass project was very successful,” said Tomer Lotan, the policy chief of Israel’s national coronavirus response center, summing up the experiment of the past few months. It was particularly effective, he said, as an incentive to encourage the 16-to-40 age group to get vaccinated and to allow Israel to reopen its economy.

“But anybody who did not get vaccinated by now is probably not going to,” Mr. Lotan said.
About 81 percent of Israel’s adult population has been fully vaccinated, but about 2.6 million children under 16 are still not eligible, out of a total population of just over nine million. Up to a million people have chosen not to be inoculated, despite Israel’s enviable supply of vaccine doses.
Even with schools fully open and operating in a regular format, infection rates among children have remained low. In general, national infection rates are down to single digits on some days, from a peak of 10,000 a day in January.
Israel was among the first countries to grapple with some of the legal and moral issues arising from a two-tiered system for vaccinated and unvaccinated people. Because getting vaccinated has been voluntary, some people who chose not to or could not be vaccinated argued that the Green Pass system was discriminatory. Enforcement was also patchy.
With infection rates so low, Mr. Lotan said that the Green Pass had outlived its usefulness. Businesses complained about the additional burden of enforcing the rules. And movie complexes and other leisure attractions did not reopen, because it was unprofitable as long as unvaccinated children could not enter without showing a recent negative Covid-19 test, which many found impractical.
“A few months ago, if you would’ve told us we’d be in this current situation, it would probably seem like science-fiction,” said Nadav Davidovitch of the School of Public Health at Ben-Gurion University of the Negev.
The big question now, he said, is whether Israel has reached some degree of herd immunity. “Even if we are not there,” he said, “we are probably very close.”

P.S. btw, Canada already overpassed Israel by number of people who got 1st dose. It's time to reopen.
 

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But again, look are the most successful country in vaccination, Israel. They have 10 cases per day on average. Whole country has only 218 Covid sick people (and only 36 people have serious condition).
imho, this is because Israel used only Pfizer and Moderna.
I agree that Israel is absolutely the country to watch.

Good news for Israel is good news for us as well.
 

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Think we need to give greater emphasis to deaths and severe illness vs # case Moving forward. Many partially vaccinated people (or inferior vaccinated people- AZ?) will catch COVID, suffer a few days and recover. We need to focus on deaths when making decisions. As many have said, everyone will be exposed at some time….the hope is to survive without LT issues.
 
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