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I don't understand why Ford was waffling in late October/early November. It was clear where the trend was going. Had we acted earlier, the virus might have been knocked down enough to have a somewhat normal Christmas. At this point, I would not be surprised to see more of Ontario subject to lockdown by then.
Maybe he was hoping that people would voluntarily scale back enough, but they didn't.
 

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^ There's long line ups for that in TO also so it's not an uncommon sight ... and now even longer line ups.
 

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Discussion Starter #3,384 (Edited)
These lineups are miles long and full of people who never went to a food bank before.

Lots of people are laid off due to COVID and have no money. Many more are going to be laid off.

The COVID financial support package has been sitting on Mitch McConnell's desk since May.

I would think our government is going to have to initiate another CERB as well.
 

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Looking into the future, there were very nice developments today.

The Oxford University & AstraZeneca vaccine looks promising. This one is made from chimpanzee poop. Somewhat preliminary results, but it's good news.

Additionally, a new study on COVID antibodies seems to show that people remained immune for at least 6 months. And here's a second article on COVID immunity.

... I continue to think, as I have for months, that COVID will be more or less a non-issue in a year. The key thing right now is to avoid widespread deaths this winter and to avoid the collapse of our hospital systems. Medical workers, nurses and doctors, are extremely stressed out (facing exhaustion) so we're in a very dangerous position right now.

Our medical system is run by people, and the people are reaching their limits. I know a couple med people who were asked to help at hospital ICUs in Manitoba, and they refused. They said nope, I can't, I'm exhausted -- I'm not fit to work. This is a very bad situation. We've got to shut down things aggressively before the hospitals stop working.
 

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Discussion Starter #3,389
It is amazing how much can be accomplished so quickly, when you pour enough resources into it.

Perhaps there is a lesson to be learned here and "research and development" spending won't be at the top of the "cut" list for governments when doing budgets.
 

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It is amazing how much can be accomplished so quickly, when you pour enough resources into it.

Perhaps there is a lesson to be learned here and "research and development" spending won't be at the top of the "cut" list for governments when doing budgets.
You do realize that there has been a tremendous cost to this?

Other research was stopped, we've lots YEARS of progress in other research.

Yes, if we totally focus on a single issue, we're likely to see great progress there.
Myself I'd rather broad improvements across all aspects of society.
 

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Etobicoke restaurant opens indoor dining despite COVID-19 lockdown restrictions

Here's another attention-seeker.

I don't know why the news reporter doesn't zoom in on the "ticket" the enforcement officers are supposedly to write. I would like to see at least a $5,000 number there for a start with today's date. The enforcement officers can return tomorrow with another $5,000 winning ticket for the bozo in compliance with the "laws". Or are there no lockdown laws over there in Etobicoke (Ford's home district)?
 

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Etobicoke restaurant opens indoor dining despite COVID-19 lockdown restrictions

Here's another attention-seeker.

I don't know why the news reporter doesn't zoom in on the "ticket" the enforcement officers are supposedly to write. I would like to see at least a $5,000 number there for a start with today's date. The enforcement officers can return tomorrow with another $5,000 winning ticket for the bozo in compliance with the "laws". Or are there no lockdown laws over there in Etobicoke (Ford's home district)?
Just saw an update on this. police will be back tomorrow. The councillor was there too today. Councillor wants the parking lot blocked off. Seeking fines of $100,000. Parking tickets issued today for the restaurant guests. Rumours are that the restaurant may not hold a business license. Also saw that the owner may be a anti-masker who was ranting during the first waive too. Should make for more exciting news tomorrow. Police also said they will, but hope not to, forcefully remove people who dine in.
 

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CityNews just reported on this issue. A known white nationalist showed up to support the owner. A customer cried “give me liberty or give me death”.

wasn’t someone on CMF worried about US style politics/protests coming to Canada?
 

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The hang-over from COVID is going to be epic. This is the costliest disaster to befall humanity ever, and likely by an order of magnitude. What we should learn from this is that it pays to be prepared for pandemics--we should be treating it like national defense during the cold war. So many lives could have been saved, and reduced economic impact had we responded more coherently and had the right monitoring, processes, and supplies in place to address this pandemic. The unfortunate thing is that severe pandemics seem to be spread just far enough that we become complacent between them. A century between the Spanish flu and COVID-19, though I wager the next pandemic on this scale won't take 100 years.
 

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The hang-over from COVID is going to be epic. This is the costliest disaster to befall humanity ever, and likely by an order of magnitude.
. . .
The unfortunate thing is that severe pandemics seem to be spread just far enough that we become complacent between them. A century between the Spanish flu and COVID-19, though I wager the next pandemic on this scale won't take 100 years.
This is one aspect that angers me quite a bit.

A rag tag crew of 9/11 hijackers kills a few thousand people, and the US -- and the world -- mobilizes to a level never before seen in history. Something like 3,000 deaths became the basis for national spending in the $2 to $5 trillion mark (for war spending, weaponry, R&D, and social services for troops) for the US.

All these governments created entirely new departments. US created the enormous DHS. They boosted military funding to new heights. Entire new programs of study were created in universities. New think tanks and experts appeared.

And then something like this disease comes along, wipes out orders of magnitude more people .... dramatically worse than any terrorism we have seen ... and what happens?

The public, and government, will barely put any effort into solving these problems. What should happen now is a Manhattan Project style enormous project, either domestic or collaboration between countries. There should be hundreds of billions of $ poured into R&D, perhaps TRILLIONS of $ poured into R&D, to get scientists and researchers working on projects such as redesigning hospitals, redesigning the healthcare system / infrastructure, using modern data and analytics to improve healthcare, supply chains for emergencies/vaccines, understanding the psychology of public health, and disaster management in general...

I mean total re-design. Big stuff.

I would join such a project. Hell, I would quit whatever other work I'm doing and join such a 'Manhattan Project' to improve North American resilience to pandemics and natural disaster. I'll bet that huge numbers of other engineers, scientists, doctors would also join such a project.

Will it happen? Will the public want to put ANYWHERE close to the money they wasted "fighting terrorism" on this stuff?

I worked as a US government contractor. On more than one occasion, I met with government program managers and asked... aren't you concerned about problems similar [to terrorism], but for natural disasters? I pointed out that historically speaking, natural disasters kill far more people than terrorism.

The people always responded with the same thing: top leadership does not prioritize natural disasters. Everyone is worried about terrorism.

I bet you that even TODAY, there are probably still people who are more worried about terrorism than what's actively killing 100x more people than terrorism.

All the economic loss and GDP damage is our punishment for being such a stupid society that we fail to invest in ourselves, fail to plan for threats that can be seen from a mile away. If we don't want all this kind of damage, the psychological fallout and trauma, to happen again then it's pretty clear we have to do.
 

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The people always responded with the same thing: top leadership does not prioritize natural disasters. Everyone is worried about terrorism.

I bet you that even TODAY, there are probably still people who are more worried about terrorism than what's actively killing 100x more people than terrorism.

All the economic loss and GDP damage is our punishment for being such a stupid society that we fail to invest in ourselves, fail to plan for threats that can be seen from a mile away. If we don't want all this kind of damage, the psychological fallout and trauma, to happen again then it's pretty clear we have to do.
Too bad that democracy thing keeps getting in the way.

Face it Democracy sucks, the leaders pander to the wishes and whims of a self centered, mostly ignorant populace, who can't evaluate if they're doing a good job or not.

But it's better than the other systems.
 

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This is one aspect that angers me quite a bit.

...

Will it happen? Will the public want to put ANYWHERE close to the money they wasted "fighting terrorism" on this stuff?

I worked as a US government contractor. On more than one occasion, I met with government program managers and asked... aren't you concerned about problems similar [to terrorism], but for natural disasters? I pointed out that historically speaking, natural disasters kill far more people than terrorism.

The people always responded with the same thing: top leadership does not prioritize natural disasters. Everyone is worried about terrorism.

I bet you that even TODAY, there are probably still people who are more worried about terrorism than what's actively killing 100x more people than terrorism.


All the economic loss and GDP damage is our punishment for being such a stupid society that we fail to invest in ourselves, fail to plan for threats that can be seen from a mile away. If we don't want all this kind of damage, the psychological fallout and trauma, to happen again then it's pretty clear we have to do.
... because these overly-smart public find "the politics" in countering "terrorism" to be ever ever so sexy. And the BIG BUSINESSES (aka $$$ to be made) are too lucrative to pass off.
 

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... because these overly-smart public find "the politics" in countering "terrorism" to be ever ever so sexy. And the BIG BUSINESSES (aka $$$ to be made) are too lucrative to pass off.
Pretty much this. Terrorism is an easy propaganda sell and you can market with slick political advertisements to get the emotions going. Combating a virus isn't quite the same. Same with the big business. The industrial military complex is huge and lucrative. Pharmaceutical companies are also lucrative, but are backed by university research which isn't as profit driven and overall, doesn't employ the same numbers of low skilled labourers that a factory shop require. Easier to push for terrorism when you can guarantee lots of low skilled jobs instead of health which tend to have few high skilled jobs.
 

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Discussion Starter #3,400
Listen to the Republican politicians even today. They compare the COVID to the seasonal flu and argue that businesses should be wide open.

They don't seem capable of linking a wide open economy with a COVID spreading so rapidly that it overwhelms the health care system and creates such a panic that people stay home in fear. Businesses would be open but have no customers. They would have to pay employees but have no revenue.

A wide open economy would mean a total collapse of the economic system. They just don't seem able to comprehend that.
 
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