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Discussion Starter #3,301
Doug Ford is using the same kind of logic as the "denier" side, by saying that 99% of school kids haven't got COVID yet.

Only .002% of people die from hypothermia, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't wear a coat in the winter.
 

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Doug Ford is using the same kind of logic as the "denier" side, by saying that 99% of school kids haven't got COVID yet.

Only .002% of people die from hypothermia, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't wear a coat in the winter.
Ridiculous analogy.

Consider 0.012% of the population die in car accidents. Should we ban all driving. No, because the odds are good and we feel the benefits are worth it. It's the same with school. We have to educate our children. It may increase the infection rate slightly, but it's worth it.

ltr
 

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We have no guard to let down.

Canadians aren't taking this seriously, and our leaders are treading water hoping for a quick vaccine miracle.

The other day I went to my lawyers office to drop off some paperwork and the people in the waiting room were not wearing masks.
(the virus is spreading in offices)
Where was this?
Yes if people ignore the restrictions, it will get worse.

The schools have kids wearing masks all day, except for recess and lunch. What is the point of wearing a mask the rest of the time ?
(the virus is spreading in schools)
Please provide a source.
From my understanding the schools aren't actually spreading.
As I have school aged kids I'm watching this closely, and it seems that school outbreaks have been very limited in my area.

They wear a mask, except when they're putting food in their mouths, or when they're outside and distant.
Wearing masks is about reducing risk, not eliminating it.

Retirement homes mandate employees have to take a COVID test if they call in sick. They have to await the results before they can return to work.
But the residents come and go all day. They leave to have Thanksgiving Dinner with their families and come back. There is no restrictions on them.
(the virus is spreading in long term and retirement homes)

If Dr. Fauci says Canada is heading for trouble, I believe him. Trudeau has also warned the Premiers they aren't taking it seriously enough.

Unfortunately, they aren't listening. We will be just like the US if we don't shut down now.
We know you want a lockdown, but lockdowns are bad for mental health. Doug Ford just allocated millions more for mental health problems, which are increasing during this crisis.
As well other problems, such as domestic violence are increasing.

Lockdowns and restrictions do a lot of harm to people, the harm of lockdown restrictions must be balanced to the risks of COVID exposure.
 

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Ridiculous analogy.

Consider 0.012% of the population die in car accidents. Should we ban all driving. No, because the odds are good and we feel the benefits are worth it. It's the same with school. We have to educate our children. It may increase the infection rate slightly, but it's worth it.

ltr
Most people clamouring for locking down the schools don't understand, or simply don't care about the harm it does to the kids.
If you saw how happy they were to get back to school you might understand how horribly isolating it was for them.
 

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Discussion Starter #3,305 (Edited)
There is no restriction on people taking their kids out to parks or recreational areas.

Our grandson loves basketball, so I took him to some hoops behind a school and we were the only ones there. Take the kids for a walk down a trail and have them explore nature. Take them fishing on a riverbank. Take them for a drive in the car and stop along farm roads so they can see the animals, talk about the crops, and breathe the air. Have them learn to paint with oils or acrylic paint. There are some great tutorials online. Have them learn to play checkers, chess, or card games. Give them an old fashioned game board like Chinese checkers. Have them learn how to cook and bake.

There are many useful skills that are valuable and never taught in schools. Now is a perfect time for parents to teach those skills.

We did it with our son. Our son is doing it with his boys. Parents can do it if they want to.
 

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Expert pathologist denounces over reaction to Covid. He is in the business of selling Covid tests, so he is going against his own interest to speak out this way, as well as inviting criticism. This makes him more credible and deserving of respect.

 

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There is no restriction on people taking their kids out to parks or recreational areas.

Our grandson loves basketball, so I took him to some hoops behind a school and we were the only ones there. Take the kids for a walk down a trail and have them explore nature. Take them fishing on a riverbank. Take them for a drive in the car and stop along farm roads so they can see the animals, talk about the crops, and breathe the air. Have them learn to paint with oils or acrylic paint. There are some great tutorials online. Have them learn to play checkers, chess, or card games. Give them an old fashioned game board like Chinese checkers. Have them learn how to cook and bake.

There are many useful skills that are valuable and never taught in schools. Now is a perfect time for parents to teach those skills.

We did it with our son. Our son is doing it with his boys. Parents can do it if they want to.
Must be nice to be independently wealthy where you don't have to work to pay the bills.
 

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Discussion Starter #3,308 (Edited)
Expert pathologist denounces over reaction to Covid. He is in the business of selling Covid tests, so he is going against his own interest to speak out this way, as well as inviting criticism. This makes him more credible and deserving of respect.

Wow.......that is quite interesting and the doctor appears to be well qualified and legitimate.

I would wonder about comparing the COVID to the normal flu though, considering the number of hospitalizations, ICU and ventilator cases there are.

He basically is saying to lock down long term homes and the vulnerable and let the virus run it's course...basically herd mentality.

Has that worked out well anywhere else ? I believe Sweden tried it and then got hit hard. The UK tried it for a short period of time and then changed.

China has among the world's lowest numbers and they locked down hard, so there is evidence a stiff lockdown it worked there.

Food for thought though.
 

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Expert pathologist denounces over reaction to Covid. He is in the business of selling Covid tests, so he is going against his own interest to speak out this way, as well as inviting criticism. This makes him more credible and deserving of respect.

... an expert "pathologist" in the business of selling Covid tests denounces overreaction to the (Covid) pandemic...hmmm.... on the making him more credible and deserving of respect. LMAO ... that should be a NOT on respect & credibility.

For one, the "over-reaction" is his last concern or the need for his pathological "expertise" as everyone would have been dead then. Plus no need for his invented test.
 

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We know you want a lockdown, but lockdowns are bad for mental health. Doug Ford just allocated millions more for mental health problems, which are increasing during this crisis.
As well other problems, such as domestic violence are increasing.
perhaps, we could consider this,
then research + start try improving our immune system (individual, small, large scale).
***important: avoid excess,
need find individual balancing levels / amounts
* edited for proper quote
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Nabarro went on to point out several of the negative consequences lockdowns have caused across the world, including devastating tourism industries and increased hunger and poverty.
.....In the United States, lockdowns have been tied to increased thoughts of suicide from children, a surge in drug overdoses, an uptick in domestic violence, and a study conducted in May concluded that stress and anxiety from lockdowns could destroy seven times the years of life that lockdowns potentially save.
---

Studies show that acute stress can reduce the performance of the immune system and suppress the production of immunoglobulin. The effects of stress and negative emotions on the levels of IgA are one of the major issues in the field of psychoneuro immunology studies.
Recently, the measurement of salivary immunoglobulin A (sIgA) is another potential non-invasive method for the measurement of stress. The IgA is the most frequent class of antibodies in mucous membrane, which is a very important factor in the protection against infectious agents, allergy, and external proteins and has a concentration that can be affected by stress.

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- Normal IgA levels protect the body against infections, allergies, and autoimmunity.
Gut bacteria may be important for IgA production.
Germ-free mice have greatly reduced IgA production in the gut. Even a single strain of bacteria can effectively promote the production of gut IgA in germ-free mice
 

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Discussion Starter #3,311
What is the trade off that people are willing to accept to keep the economy open ?

I agree that lock downs are bad. I think letting the virus run wild and overrunning the healthcare system with the sick and dying is worse.
 

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Most people clamouring for locking down the schools don't understand, or simply don't care about the harm it does to the kids.
If you saw how happy they were to get back to school you might understand how horribly isolating it was for them.
Yeah, all those kids that are home schooled are severely harmed. Their parents should be charged with child abuse/neglect. :rolleyes:
 

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Experts told us from the start that masks and social distancing would NOT stop the virus, at best they would slow it down so as not to overwhelm the health care system. It turned out the Covid virus was much less dangerous than they feared, no worse than a bad flu season as Dr Hodkinson points out. Now there are 2 new vaccines ready to go and more in the works. It seems likely the vaccines will be out by the end of the year and the crisis will be over early next year
I still think some people are over reacting, even though I am on the list of those in most danger from the virus (over 65 with underlying health issues).
 

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Yeah, all those kids that are home schooled are severely harmed. Their parents should be charged with child abuse/neglect. :rolleyes:
Charged for keeping their kids socially isolated in accordance with the law?

So are you saying that the lockdowns are abusive?

I think they're psychologically harmful, but it's a balance with the risks of COVID, which for kids is low, which is why I think schools should remain open.
 

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I think they're psychologically harmful, but it's a balance with the risks of COVID, which for kids is low, which is why I think schools should remain open.
And what would be the psychological harm to a child getting covid at school, passing it on to one or both parents resulting in a death?
 

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And what would be the psychological harm to a child getting covid at school, passing it on to one or both parents resulting in a death?
It would be bad, but is that sound reasoning to not send children to school? I could tell you that there will be a certain number of children killed in car accidents. Given the known risk, do we decide that there should be no driving of cars? No, because the risk is low enough that we decide that it's worth it. Same as school.

ltr
 

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It would be bad, but is that sound reasoning to not send children to school? I could tell you that there will be a certain number of children killed in car accidents. Given the known risk, do we decide that there should be no driving of cars? No, because the risk is low enough that we decide that it's worth it. Same as school.

ltr
Car vs Covid ... not an great analogy IMO but your point is understood. Guess it would depend on the level of covid cases around and at the schools. As of now, they do close schools here (for a short period of time) with community spread.

I think, if this were to go long term (many years) without a vaccine, other options could and need to be explored. Options that would further reduce risk and also provide relief to teachers that appear to be getting stressed.
 

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And what would be the psychological harm to a child getting covid at school, passing it on to one or both parents resulting in a death?
Higher, but you have to look at expected value to balance that risk.

Schools are screened and monitored, not as well as hospitals, but much better than most other public areas.
The mask rules are enforced, again unlike public areas.
They have contact tracing, which restaurants do seem to have, but stores do not.

The result is very few kids get COVID19 from schools.

In London, we are currently at a spike, of 120 active cases in the region, 11 in the hospital, the population of the city alone is over 400k.
The risk to kids of getting COVID is very low.

If you're at risk, keep your kids home, otherwise the risk is very low.

Now contrast that to the cost of isolation
Most kids will suffer some impact from the isolation, some will suffer increased levels of abuse and domestic violence.

So we have a very unlikely but very tramatic event (COVID)
vs high indicence less tramatic (isolation

I'll agree it's not an easy decision, but I think with the incredibly low rates we're seeing here school makes sense.


Personally I think they should close restaurants and even in person shopping (for most items) before they even consider closing schools.
 
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