Canadian Money Forum banner

2461 - 2480 of 2543 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,692 Posts
Discussion Starter #2,462
With the fatality rate of COVID and the serious permanent injuries it leaves behind, herd immunity was never a serious consideration.

Containment until there is an effective treatment or vaccine is the only course of action. Economic cost is a far distant secondary issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,967 Posts
With the fatality rate of COVID and the serious permanent injuries it leaves behind, herd immunity was never a serious consideration.

Containment until there is an effective treatment or vaccine is the only course of action. Economic cost is a far distant secondary issue.

I agree the only answer is a vaccine.

But I wonder about all these people that seem to test positive and have no apparent symptoms - do they develop the antibodies for immunity?

ltr
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,524 Posts
I think they develop antibodies. Whether anyone is developing enough antibodies to develop immunity and how long that immunity lasts is still unknown.

Many people who are asymptomatic are showing lung damage following infection. Just because you don't develop symptoms does not mean that infection does not take a toll on you, potentially permanently.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,762 Posts
US death rate at new lows. Something is happening and not many people are discussing it. The media is so focused on the spread of the virus. Why not some good news?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,692 Posts
Discussion Starter #2,466 (Edited)
The death rate is down because old age homes are locked down and better insulated from the virus while increasingly it is younger people who are contracting the disease.

The fatality rate is lower among that age group, but according to many ICU doctors some of the younger patients are suffering from serious long term effects to their health after their "recovery".

All that is being reported in the media. Fatality rates are one aspect of the virus, but not the only one.

It remains clear that when large groups gather indoors, the virus spreads rapidly. Any return to normalcy will have to be without large groups involved.

That is certainly going to make it difficult to manage. People who work in large office towers, large factories, etc. are at higher risk.

I would think simply living in a high rise apartment or condo puts a person at greater risk. I find it doubtful that every landlord has instituted a stiff regime of continous cleaning of common areas like elevators, stair rails, lobbies and other areas.

Canada is doing well. If we let our guard down, the virus will spread rapidly and everything will be back where it was in March.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,524 Posts
US death rate at new lows. Something is happening and not many people are discussing it. The media is so focused on the spread of the virus. Why not some good news?
The good news is that it is young idiots who are much less likely to die. But just as capable of spreading to their granny or their neighbours in the grocery store.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,246 Posts
Melbourne, Australia is now locking down following an outbreak in 9 apartment towers. No leaving your home except for essential reasons is being enforced. We never actually even went to a mandatory lock down here in Canada.

Masks are now mandatory indoors in any public accessed buildings anywhere in Toronto and Ottawa with more municipalities intending to follow suit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,692 Posts
Discussion Starter #2,471
The way the virus has impacted different age groups over time, makes me wonder if mutations aren't a more serious problem than previously thought.

At first it appeared it was mostly attacking older people. The plan was to isolate the older people and everything could carry on.

Then younger people started having more severe symptoms, including ICU care and deaths.

Now some say the virus has mutated again and created a new method of entering the cells.

I don't know. There are so many reports and studies from different sources, that nothing is clear anymore.

The WHO or CDC should be the places to go for the most up to date information, but it appears both organizations have been politicized.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,246 Posts
Yesterday we did an Express Pickup at our local PC Superstore. While waiting for them to bring out our order, I was watching the people going in and out of the store. Very few were wearing a mask, couples were going in together or even with children and I saw several come out with only 1 or 2 items. One guy came out with a single bag of carrots.

My concern is that people are going back to their same old habits as if the virus no longer existed and that may well lead to more outbreaks. We need government at all levels to go back to STRONG messages about continuing to take all the same precautions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,524 Posts
Yesterday we did an Express Pickup at our local PC Superstore. While waiting for them to bring out our order, I was watching the people going in and out of the store. Very few were wearing a mask, couples were going in together or even with children and I saw several come out with only 1 or 2 items. One guy came out with a single bag of carrots.

My concern is that people are going back to their same old habits as if the virus no longer existed and that may well lead to more outbreaks. We need government at all levels to go back to STRONG messages about continuing to take all the same precautions.
If we are allowing people to drink on patios I don't know if we should be shaming people for buying carrots.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,586 Posts
Not sure how that would square with it not becoming widespread until a year later.
Like I said there would need to be more research into it. It could be that there were traces of virus that are similar to COVID that they found.
Assuming it actually started in Spain, it could be that cases/deaths were simply classified as a regular flu. It would be interesting to see what the flu reporting was like during 2019 and if it was out of norm from historical averages. Travelers could have brought it to Wuhan, where it mutated and became more deadly.

There were already stories about the virus being present before the first "official" cases in France: French doctors say they found a COVID-19 patient from December

In some ways, it would explain why there seemed to be 2 distinct strains. If it mutated that quickly to have 2 distinct strains in a month (i.e. between Dec - Wuhan, and Jan - France's official first case), you'd think there would be a lot more strains. However, if we're talking about a difference from March (Spain) to Dec (Wuhan), it could mean that it doesn't mutate very quickly, which has been reported before: Coronavirus seems to mutate much slower than seasonal flu
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,009 Posts
Well there are also viruses that you develop antibodies to that can come back in a different form years later like chicken pox/shingles. Then there is the herpes virus that you develop antibodies to, but those fade and the virus hides in your cells and reappears later, sometimes repeatedly throughout life. No evidence of any corona virus doing that in other species but it has been suggested as a possibility by some researchers..
Corona virus in other animals, esp cattle herds, seem to produce antibodies that seem to be detectable about 6 months but protect against new outbreaks for about 3 years. While a body may not continue to make antibodies, it remembers the formula for a while after stopping production of the antibodies.
Will that be true of this one? Wild ruminants(various species of deer tested) seem to have about a 6-10% seropositvie rate for Bovine Corona Virus so perhaps that is the rate for somewhat herd immunity. Although that may be a 3 year cycle as noted in cattle - and this is based on limited research and testing.
Various corona infections are associated with respiratory, enteric, hepatic, and central nervous system diseases depending on the species of animal. Usually it will only present itself in one or two systems in a species but so far in humans it seems to be able to present in any of these although primarily the respiratory system. In some species it is suspected to be associated with later adenocarcinoma development if it affects the enteric system. - this is just a hypothesis aka scientific speculation.
It has also been suggested, based on some evidence, that COVID19 may cross the blood/brain barrier.
There is a lot we do not know yet and mutations may change the virus and how it presents. It may be years before we see what the long term damage is for low or asysmtomatic people. I suspect we will see 1 million deaths in the USA before this is done and a proportional number in other countries although countries with better measures will take longer to reach those levels.
A vaccine - don't hold your breath. Although vaccines are actually pretty easy to develop, safe effective vaccines are another matter.
Some corona species seem to have an ability to grow better when trypsin is added to the culture medium in labs. Is there a role for trypsin inhibitor in some cases?.
Some carefully dosed minerals seem to mediate the cytokine response in the body. Is there role for that?

Keep safe out there and don't speak moistly :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,246 Posts
Meanwhile the virus is still with us and as dangerous as ever. Now we have this WE Charity scandal which will no doubt consume the media's attention and further reduce the attention being paid to the virus and what we are doing to contain it.

Please do not comment on the WE scandal in response to my comment here. Comment on Covid-19 which is the topic that we all should be paying attention to still.

A recent poll indicated that at least as many Canadians as ever are anxious and concerned about Covid. The difference is that now what is driving the anxiety is concern about our border with the USA and the potential if we open the border. I guess people are worried that political and economic pressure to open the border may overcome health risk as a reason to keep it closed.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
652 Posts
I just heard a scientist on CNN say that all scientists who study these type of viruses know that this is the "Quiet Time".
It is fall and winter when the virus will really be evident.
I understand that 1000 medical staff have died and this is the quitet time.
I think they talk about school just to ease our stress.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
652 Posts
As Vaccine Skepticism In U.S. Grows, Experts Recommend Strategies For Covid-19 Vaccination Campaign
As polling suggests that only half of America's population would be willing to get the Covid-19 vaccine if it were available, a panel of scientific and academic experts on Thursdays released a set of recommendations for how to boost confidence in vaccines, including appointing community spokespeople and making the vaccine free to all and available at familiar places like centers for worship.
By Alexandra Sternlicht
July 09, 2020
(PDF Document)
 
2461 - 2480 of 2543 Posts
Top