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People over 50 also occupy beds, unless you're suggesting we toss them directly into the grave.
I thought that Prairie was saying that most people just get sick and not die.
Just more death with people over 50. (If people over 50 just stayed home, problem solved.)

But I think it was somewhere in this thread that somebody mentioned instances where some patients had huge medical problems for the rest of your life even if you do survive.
 

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Is there any evidence to show that opening up the economy completely will not create a huge amount of Covid-19 cases?
How are our medical facilities going to handle such a huge increase?
It is my understanding that the reason the economy was shut down was to control the infection to a point where ICU units in hospitals can handle that amount of patients.
The continual shutdown is prevent overflow at ICU's.

Is there any proof that if the economy was completely opened up today that the hospital ICU can continue to function?

I don't really care how old people are who die from Covid-19. It is still "Death" of a mother a father or a friend of somebody.

Another issue I have is that governments want to hire private companies to carry out the testing and tracing programs. Hiring private companies would mean that the information is not public information.

I suspect that governments are doing this so that when they tell the public what progress is being made, the paperwork to prove this ...... the data collected will be private and not up for public review or inspection. New York has hired Bloomberg.
I can't speak for other provinces, but in ours is opening in stages. It's not going to be from locked down to complete opening. It's based on key metrics. One of them is the number hospital and ICU bed capacity. While under the threashold (>50%), then things will be able to open up. If it jumps or creeps past that, then they will have to increase restrictions. It's a constant balance.

One of the ways to monitor COVID is the ability to do tracing. That is one of the factors in determining restrictions. That was a key factor in shutting down our schools when they did, which was when the first cases of untraceable community spread was detected. That's one of the reasons that the tracing apps are so important. My province put out a tracing app. I have it on though I highly value my privacy because I know that the ability to reduce spread comes from tracing. The faster you can identify that someone you are in contact with has been infected the better the chance of stopping the spread.

Hopefully, people are smart enough to recognize when the number start to increase, they need to start bringing in restrictions quickly to prevent a complete shut down.

I already explained that. Due to the very low infection rate for people under 50 that's not likely to happen. Why can't you just do the math? Is it too hard?
The challenge is now, the larger group that is getting infected is the under 35 crowd.
 

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Discussion Starter #2,383
I don't take the tracking seriously, since it involves a couple of weeks worth of contacts.

People can list a few people they were around, but what about all the people who they don't even know ?

So, I was with my wife, grandson, and went to a few grocery stores and Walmart. Then I was at the gas station, doctor's office, and then I went to the dollar store and then..........

Tracking helps when someone in a large gathering gets sick and they can notify everyone else who attended (a church service for example) but for everyday life.....not so good.
 

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I thought that NSA could track people within 3 feet by tracking a cell phone tower.
Why would we need some other method?
I understand that NSA can track you day by day from cell phone tower hits.
 

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The challenge is now, the larger group that is getting infected is the under 35 crowd.
Getting infected and being sick enough to require hospitalization are two entirely different things. The under 35 crowd are not and never have overwhelmed the hospitals. There is no challenge to overcome.
 

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What’s the reason for the seemingly higher “deaths per population” in countries and states that faced the virus earlier. Ex. Most of europe, NY state?

is treatment getting better now? Better testing is slowing down transmission? Were citizens exposed to higher viral loads before social distancing took effect? Are the “lower death” areas just lagging? Age related?

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I listened to some interview this morning and the guy said that all the young people who were infected and survived actually have huge damage to the lungs. It is seen by X-ray and is going to worsen over time.
 

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Deaths lag infections (it could take 2 weeks+ for someone infected to die). I think the detection rate is also higher now that testing has ramped up (death rates seem higher in earlier infection areas due to under-diagnosing number of cases and recoveries).
 

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Discussion Starter #2,391 (Edited)
We are in a pickle......

The expert of experts, who consults with all the top experts like Tony Fauci all the time came on CNN and says......

None of the "miracle" drugs work. Among the group of possible vaccines........NONE of them will offer total immunity.

The earliest vaccine in the process will start Clinical III studies in the fall. It will take at least 12 months to get the results, and it is the weakest candidate vaccine.

He said that Dr. Fauci and others are aware of the facts but the politics require they offer a bit of "hope" to the public, even if the hope is near non-existent.

He said none of the vaccines will be totally protective and people will have to continue wearing a mask and social distancing.

He is located in Texas, and says the State opened up too early and now the emergency rooms and ICU are at capacity and will be overflowing soon.

Texas is facing a NYC type of outbreak.

My thoughts are that governments are going to be supporting people for a long time. The only solution is for them to collectively pretend the money doesn't exist. Just send out cheques and don't keep track of the cost. It will be a lie, but it won't be the first time people were lied to and nobody will care because they are all in the same leaky canoe.

Confidence is all that drives the global financial system, so confidence is all that is required to keep it afloat.

We are stocking up again on supplies because who knows what is going to happen.
 

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I think that everybody needs to watch when subway capacity is increasing.
I think that "Normal" is when capacity is at least 80%. Watch the subway schedule and capacity statistics. This would apply to all major cities in North America.

America will survive economically if no other competing world currency becomes an alternative.

BitCoin is not gonna save anybody. Most will not even have access to websites.
The alternative currency would need to be backed by Gold and supported by both China and Russia,

This guy might be the scientist which you mentioned.

Peter Hotez
From Wikipedia
 

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I wish our news media would go to the bother of trying to put some things in perspective when talking about the virus. Raw numbers are meaningless generally speaking and yet that is all they ever seem to tell us.

For example, they tell us Florida had 5,000 new cases in one day. Ontario had say 200. How then do we compare that to try and understand what it really means? Are we supposed to think, 'oh wow, they are doing 25 times worse than we are.' It isn't that simple. Ontario has roughly 14 million population while Florida has over 21 million. That means if Ontario has 200 cases then to be doing as well, Florida could have 300 cases. Or if Florida has 5,000 cases, to be doing as badly, Ontario would have to have 3,333 cases. Those are COMPARABLE numbers that have some meaning and tell you something. Raw numbers tell us nothing that is comparable.

Canada has had a total of 102,000 cases. The USA has 10 times our population, so a comparable number for them would be 1 million cases. They have had 2.47 million cases. So they are doing overall, 2.5 times worse than we are. you can't really say they are ONLY doing 2.5 times worse, as if it weren't all that bad but it gives you a real comparison which 102,000 vs. 2.47 million does not give you unless you do the math to put those raw numbers in perspective somehow relative to each other.

I just wish our media would take 2 minutes to do that when they report on ANY area. The other way to do it is in 'per capita' numbers.
 

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The media and governments are hell bent on keeping everybody confused.
I don't think the Ruling Class want us realizing just how horrible a situation we find ourselves in.
They play with numbers. Meaningless numbers without any comparison.
50 states and 50 different reporting systems.
The Ruling Class do not want a "Central Command" because they are relying upon "Confusion".
The Ruling Class are using "Confusion" while stalling for time and a vaccine.
 

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I wish our news media would go to the bother of trying to put some things in perspective when talking about the virus. Raw numbers are meaningless generally speaking and yet that is all they ever seem to tell us.

For example, they tell us Florida had 5,000 new cases in one day. Ontario had say 200. How then do we compare that to try and understand what it really means? Are we supposed to think, 'oh wow, they are doing 25 times worse than we are.' It isn't that simple. Ontario has roughly 14 million population while Florida has over 21 million. That means if Ontario has 200 cases then to be doing as well, Florida could have 300 cases. Or if Florida has 5,000 cases, to be doing as badly, Ontario would have to have 3,333 cases. Those are COMPARABLE numbers that have some meaning and tell you something. Raw numbers tell us nothing that is comparable.

Canada has had a total of 102,000 cases. The USA has 10 times our population, so a comparable number for them would be 1 million cases. They have had 2.47 million cases. So they are doing overall, 2.5 times worse than we are. you can't really say they are ONLY doing 2.5 times worse, as if it weren't all that bad but it gives you a real comparison which 102,000 vs. 2.47 million does not give you unless you do the math to put those raw numbers in perspective somehow relative to each other.

I just wish our media would take 2 minutes to do that when they report on ANY area. The other way to do it is in 'per capita' numbers.
While numbers for US vs Canada may be of interest to some I'd rather see more detailed information on the web for our local situation. Info I'd like to see is common exposure areas and were cases from community spread, known infected contact, travel related, etc. Also, I'd much rather see it from a gov site rather than media reported.
 

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No government can put a real scientific expert in TV-Land because he would need to explain the exact situation.
If an expert stood and gave the facts, I suspect millions of sucicides would take place.
Just think how many people jump in front of a TTC subway train every day in normal times. (They got body bags stored under the platform.)
Politicians take the stage to explain and are allowed to avoid precise information.
Then since the politician said very little, the media pundits all chirp up with "I Think" the politician meant to say this or is thinging this way.

One hour ago .... Limeridge Mall Ontario has a parking lot and it is full. I guess the stores or whatever is in that mall is normal.
 

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I wish our news media would go to the bother of trying to put some things in perspective when talking about the virus. Raw numbers are meaningless generally speaking and yet that is all they ever seem to tell us.

For example, they tell us Florida had 5,000 new cases in one day. Ontario had say 200. How then do we compare that to try and understand what it really means? Are we supposed to think, 'oh wow, they are doing 25 times worse than we are.' It isn't that simple. Ontario has roughly 14 million population while Florida has over 21 million. That means if Ontario has 200 cases then to be doing as well, Florida could have 300 cases. Or if Florida has 5,000 cases, to be doing as badly, Ontario would have to have 3,333 cases. Those are COMPARABLE numbers that have some meaning and tell you something. Raw numbers tell us nothing that is comparable.

Canada has had a total of 102,000 cases. The USA has 10 times our population, so a comparable number for them would be 1 million cases. They have had 2.47 million cases. So they are doing overall, 2.5 times worse than we are. you can't really say they are ONLY doing 2.5 times worse, as if it weren't all that bad but it gives you a real comparison which 102,000 vs. 2.47 million does not give you unless you do the math to put those raw numbers in perspective somehow relative to each other.

I just wish our media would take 2 minutes to do that when they report on ANY area. The other way to do it is in 'per capita' numbers.
I agree to some extent for context, but I’m still interested in how many “absolute” people have the disease vs.per capita. I think both are important.
while it’s expected beds, doctors, ppE are all planned for on a per capita basis, the absolute number also plays a part when you’re trying to source treatment needs.


our Local Health region has started to publish cases per 100,000 for each town, city, township etc. It’s helpful......we have about100 cases per 100,000. Our land area is quite large and we only have a population of 10,000.

the closest City to us is at about 50 cases per 100,000 with a population of 30,000. It’s geographically smaller so even though the case rate is half the amount....I ”feel” safer in my township.
 

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I watch CNN and MSNBC most of the time.
It has been a very long time since there has been any discussion of foreign policy.
Venezuela, Syria, Iraq never heard nothing.

It is just as though all the terrorists trying to strike America just disappeared overnight.

No talk about Hamas threatening to attack Israel if the West Bank is annexed by Israel.
Netanyahu said he is going ahead with annexation.
 

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They wanted to test all the employees at my wife's retirement home workplace. She refused because it is pointless.

They are allowing the residents to leave the building for up to 12 hours and come back in.

Employees get tested today and a resident or employee can bring it in tonight.

What is the point ?
 
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