Changing Brokerage

15584 Views 63 Replies 18 Participants Last post by warp, Nov 1, 2014

Sasquatch

Discussion Starter · Oct 18, 2014

hello everyone,

just trying to pick some brains as to the best discount brokerage for our RRSPs and non reg. Investment accounts.

I want to change all our Accounts from Scotia I Trade to another discount brokerage and don't really know who to go with.

Our Accounts (my wife and I) are fully self directed with assets of $ 190.000.- and are all invested in just 3 mutual funds (MAW 104, MAW 105 and RBF 1350) and I have no intentions of changing that.

I'm happy with their performance and the maintenance free nature of them ie. I might look into them once every couple of months or so to see how they're doing. I like it that way, nice and stress free

There are no annual charges from Scotia I Trade of any kind and I want to keep it that way. All transactions can be done on line.

Just wondering if I could simply transfer the whole deal as is to another brokerage in kind without incurring any transfer/closing/opening charges.

I know I could simply call another brokerage but I want to dip into the expertise here before going any further.

Any advice is welcomed :biggrin:

1 - 20 of 64 Posts

christinad

· #2 · Oct 18, 2014

TD is no good because it has a 35.00 redemption fee for non td funds. You have to buy a minimum 1000. bMO has a 500 minimum, I think cibcs was 500 or 1000. You can't buy mawer at royal bank. I really think itrade is the best option. I'll switch there eventually to avoid redemption fees. It is too bad because otherwise I'm happy with td.

My Own Advisor

· #3 · Oct 18, 2014

Why switch?

Sounds like you have a good thing going with iTrade.

If you do switch, you should strongly consider negotiating those fees with other brokerages. They can be waived if you talk to management and your book value is enough (i.e., > $100 k); which you have.

humble_pie

· #4 · Oct 18, 2014

normally one switches brokers for another broker that suits one's needs better.

but looking at your messages, it appears your move is intended as a punishment for scotiabank, because they didn't handle your overseas credib/debit card business properly?

as it happens, i don't believe that one retail client departure will even be noticed by the scotia algos that watch business growth & shrinkage. What you'd need to do is start a measurable stampede out of scotia. I don't see that happening for a single card story gone wrong here or there.

one thing i learned from the overseas credit card mixup stories is Always Carry 2 Cards. Make sure both have been used recently & are prepped with travel details. Me i'll never leave home again without em.

if you insist on leaving scotia because you feel you cannot stand the sight of their face, perhaps shop for the best cash promo deals. These appear to be BMO & questrade; however i sense that you might not be a questrade-y type of client. BMO offers $250 cash on a good day - you might have to wait for the promo but they're regular as clockwork - so with multiple accounts of acceptable size you should be able to load up $$.

another advantage of BMO is instant, online, seamless currency gambit trading. Evidently at the moment you are not holding US securities? but some day in the future you might want $10,000 in USD without paying FX fees ... online gambit trading is always a useful feature.

the only other broker whose trading platform permits instant online gambit trading is royal bank. However i haven't noticed roybank offering cash promos as regularly as does BMO.

bref, don't get mad, get even. Best wishes.

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OptsyEagle

· #5 · Oct 18, 2014

Also, I cannot comment on the stupidity of brokerages, but the funds you have are known for low fees. Low fees mean very, very low commissions or none at all to the brokerage.

So my question is, unless the new brokerage is incredibly stupid, they would have no incentive to take on your account, let alone pay your transfer fees to do so. Again, some brokerages will be stupider then others, so it may happen, but they would regret it. That being said, I would plan on paying $150 or so per account for the in-kind transfer.

leslie

· #6 · Oct 18, 2014

All brokerages now have an exit fee that is calculated either on a per-security basis or for an account closure. The industry has become like the garbage industry. The move is usually painless for RRSPs if you wait until 'RRSP season'. At that time many brokerages try to get you to switch by agreeing to pay your exit fees. The taxable accounts are another matter. I have never seen brokers advertise that they will pay your exit fees - but wouldn't hurt to ask.

humble_pie

· #7 · Oct 18, 2014

OptsyEagle said:
Also, I cannot comment on the stupidity of brokerages, but the funds you have are known for low fees. Low fees mean very, very low commissions or none at all to the brokerage.

So my question is, unless the new brokerage is incredibly stupid, they would have no incentive to take on your account, let alone pay your transfer fees to do so. Again, some brokerages will be stupider then others, so it may happen, but they would regret it. That being said, I would plan on paying $150 or so per account for the in-kind transfer.

lol whoever heard of a broker as smart as the optsyeagle?

afaik the broker cash promos don't specify that a new client has to trade X number of times. They don't specify either that new client has to hold funds that pay decent trailers.

what they look for is size of account. Some mizzuble small accounts get their transfer fees paid, especially during RRSP season as leslie points out upthread.

sometimes brokers put a maximum dollar amount on transfer fees they are prepared to pay for any one client, so if the OP has extra accounts he could transfer some now, the rest in 2015 which is coming up soon.

however, when all is said & done, if it were myself i'd learn from the card experience so it doesn't happen again & i'd stay at scotia ...

gibor365

· #8 · Oct 18, 2014

It's up to you transfer or not, but you may consider CIBC Investor Edge, they have promo now, if you transfer they give you $300 , 100 free trades and reimburse your transfer out fees

OptsyEagle

· #9 · Oct 18, 2014

humble_pie said:
lol whoever heard of a broker as smart as the optsyeagle?

Well, we don't want to ask too much of them.

I would think that if paying a customer's transfer fees was automatic, they would probably lead with that in their ads and discussions. If I ran a brokerage, I would need to see that the account was profitable, before I would want to take it over, especially at an upfront cost. Remember, regulations require the brokerage to send him a minimum of 4 statements each year and confirmations of every transaction. Luckily, today most of those are electronic, but they still require technology to produce ... and that technology requires profits to pay for it. The brokerage will also need to pay someone to answer the phone, every time this customer calls. Again, all that costs money.

Personally, I do not see any profit in his account for a brokerage, and hence if I ran it, I would not chase after this account, by paying a fee that he really should be paying himself. After all he is asking Scotia trade to transfer an account and although we can all argue about how much that should cost, I don't think anyone would say the cost is $0.

Anyway, I am sure if he looks far a wide he will find a brokerage stupid enough to pay his transfer fees, but he should be ready and understanding about getting some resistance.

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Beaver101

· #10 · Oct 18, 2014

If I recall correctly from an article in the G&M (Sept. 29, 2014 - can't paste/access URL here unfortunately), there is a brokerage war going on currently so that time has come ... finally. Not encouraging OP to move brokerage but market share is market share ... and the consumers is always (well, almost) right. :biggrin:

AltaRed

· #11 · Oct 18, 2014

As already mentioned. RBC DI does not allow one to buy MAW funds. If that is important, one must first check with a brokerage to first see if it will: 1) allow MAW funds to be held, and 2) whether one can purchase more units. Often 1) is permitted, but not necessarily 2). The same might apply to RBF1350 D series with certain brokerages.

I see no reason why not to stay with Scotia iTrade.

humble_pie

· #12 · Oct 19, 2014

AltaRed said:
As already mentioned. RBC DI does not allow one to buy MAW funds. If that is important, one must first check with a brokerage to first see if it will: 1) allow MAW funds to be held, and 2) whether one can purchase more units. Often 1) is permitted, but not necessarily 2). The same might apply to RBF1350 D series with certain brokerages.

I see no reason why not to stay with Scotia iTrade.

ah, yes, i'd forgotten that brokers don't like fund families that don't pay, such as mawer & steadyhand

(aside to sasquatch) (if u haven't totally run away) it looks like stay with scotia? learn to love your credit card(s)?

warp

· #13 · Oct 19, 2014

humble_pie said:
another advantage of BMO is instant, online, seamless currency gambit trading. Evidently at the moment you are not holding US securities? but some day in the future you might want $10,000 in USD without paying FX fees ... online gambit trading is always a useful feature.

the only other broker whose trading platform permits instant online gambit trading is royal bank. However i haven't noticed roybank offering cash promos as regularly as does BMO.

.

Humble,

Would you please take a moment and go over, and explain the "instant, online, seamless currency gambit trading", that you mention at BMO and Royal.

I thank you in advance,

Warp

indexxx

· #14 · Oct 19, 2014

http://www.questrade.com/campaigns/...13-00-00-Qcom-Home-smallbanner-FreeToTransfer

Sasquatch

Discussion Starter · #15 · Oct 19, 2014

Thank you all for your thoughts, very interesting indeed!
As some already guessed, I want to change because frankly I am pissed off with Scotiabank and don't want to give them my business anymore.
It's more than just the ATM cash withdrawal fiasco in Germany last month.

A couple of weeks ago I bought something online and payed for it with PayPal, using my Scotiabank Chequing Account. The purchase was made late in the evening and I deposited funds to cover the purchase the next morning.
PayPal usually takes a day or two to withdraw payments so I wasn't worried.
Well, turns out they put in a payment request that same night and of course there was NSF till the next morning.
Scotiabank was LIGHTNING FAST in slapping me with a $ 45.- NSF charge (for an $ 80.- item) for the sake of about 12 hours. They didn't miss a beat.
Well, I asked for a one time good will waiver of the NSF charge via secure message and was given the standard BS response. I've been with them for 30 years and never bounced anything.
This is frankly pissing me off and I thought of doing business with someone else, including all our investments.

As a result of your comments I am sitting back and taking 3 deep breaths

I had a suspicion that our portfolios are not very attractive to a brokerage as far as fees go, since they are low fee MFs with little or no trailer fees. As some of you said, brokerages are not very likely to fight to get our accounts since there is very little if any profit for them.

It would be a lot of trouble to switch everything over, not to mention the cost if I had to cover the transfer charges.

So, at the end of the day, I think I'll hold my nose and maintain the status quo for now.

I'm not sure if I have any Scotiabank shares via my mutual funds.
If I do, I'll eventually recover some of that $ 45.- NSF highway robbery charge.
Thanks again for all your input, it's appreciated.

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humble_pie

· #16 · Oct 19, 2014

Sasquatch said:
I'm not sure if I have any Scotiabank shares via my mutual funds.
If I do, I'll eventually recover some of that $ 45.- NSF highway robbery charge

nae nae laddie dinna fret ye so

as i read your account declaration, you don't trade & you don't own a fund that pays much of a trailer fee, if indeed any at all. The poor broker has no chargeable services for these accounts.

tis in fact thyself, my friend, who is obtaining free securities custodial service from the broker. Tis the broker who is busting its bottom collecting & distributing dividends, mailing you statements every month, preparing & mailing you those nice consolidated tax slips every year, monitoring & surveilling 24/7 for mergers, acquisitions, special dividends & other re-orgs on your behalf ...

for every $100k in securities value that you presently have lodged with this broker, one might estimate you are receiving $500 worth of custodial services without charge. How nice is that.

humble_pie

· #17 · Oct 19, 2014

warp said:
Humble,

Would you please take a moment and go over, and explain the "instant, online, seamless currency gambit trading", that you mention at BMO and Royal

warp i will be happy to, but first could you please reassure me that your request is not some kind of hallowe'en trick-or-treat?

you see, there have been hundreds of threads about currency gambit trading. Thousands of posts. Here i've been believing that every single investor in the land knows already about The Gambit.

especially longtime cmf members like yourself. CMF is where it all renewed itself in recent years. Hardly a week goes by but somebody on here doesn't bring the topic back up again.

executing a gambit trade at BMO is especially easy. As easy as, well, pie. You'll be very pleased. You'll never again, for the rest of your life, pay any kind of FX fee on US dollars to any bank or any broker.

Beaver101

· #18 · Oct 19, 2014

Sasquatch said:
Thank you all for your thoughts, very interesting indeed!
As some already guessed, I want to change because frankly I am pissed off with Scotiabank and don't want to give them my business anymore.
It's more than just the ATM cash withdrawal fiasco in Germany last month.

A couple of weeks ago I bought something online and payed for it with PayPal, using my Scotiabank Chequing Account. The purchase was made late in the evening and I deposited funds to cover the purchase the next morning.
PayPal usually takes a day or two to withdraw payments so I wasn't worried.
Well, turns out they put in a payment request that same night and of course there was NSF till the next morning.
Scotiabank was LIGHTNING FAST in slapping me with a $ 45.- NSF charge (for an $ 80.- item) for the sake of about 12 hours. They didn't miss a beat.
Well, I asked for a one time good will waiver of the NSF charge via secure message and was given the standard BS response. I've been with them for 30 years and never bounced anything.
This is frankly pissing me off and I thought of doing business with someone else, including all our investments.
As a result of your comments I am sitting back and taking 3 deep breaths

I'm not sure if I have any Scotiabank shares via my mutual funds.
If I do, I'll eventually recover some of that $ 45.- NSF highway robbery charge.
Thanks again for all your input, it's appreciated.

... have you tried complaining to your "personal" banking manager or asking for the NSF waiver from higher up? In your situation, I don't think it's the brokerage arm is the problem but your bank one - the left hand doesn't know what the right hand does under the Scotia umbrella just like all their 4 other bank cousins.

Sasquatch

Discussion Starter · #19 · Oct 19, 2014

humble_pie said:
nae nae laddie dinna fret ye so

as i read your account declaration, you don't trade & you don't own a fund that pays much of a trailer fee, if indeed any at all. The poor broker has no chargeable services for these accounts.

tis in fact thyself, my friend, who is obtaining free securities custodial service from the broker. Tis the broker who is busting its bottom collecting & distributing dividends, mailing you statements every month, preparing & mailing you those nice consolidated tax slips every year, monitoring & surveilling 24/7 for mergers, acquisitions, special dividends & other re-orgs on your behalf ...

for every $100k in securities value that you presently have lodged with this broker, one might estimate you are receiving $500 worth of custodial services without charge. How nice is that.

You're giving me cold chills ....... you mean there actually are financial institutions(brokerages) that put customers financial well being first by allowing them to buy mutual funds that generate next to no profits for them? Are they doing it just for good karma with no sneaky after thoughts, where the thought of profits doesn't even enter their minds?
This sounds like a new kind of financial saint that I must meet some day!!

Seriously, there must be something in it for Scotia I Trade. If there wasn't I'm sure they would've thrown my a$$ out of there a long time ago

Sasquatch

Discussion Starter · #20 · Oct 19, 2014

Beaver101 said:
... have you tried complaining to your "personal" banking manager or asking for the NSF waiver from higher up? In your situation, I don't think it's the brokerage arm is the problem but your bank one - the left hand doesn't know what the right hand does under the Scotia umbrella just like all their 4 other bank cousins.

My secure message went to their banking division, not Scotia I Trade as such.

As for a "higher up" to complain to, there is no contact provision for that on their website.

There is a 1 - 800 number, but I can't be bothered to call to talk to someone who

a. has no authority to do anything

b. speaks with an accent that I can't understand anyway.

I prefer communicating via message or e-mail where there is proof of who said what and when.

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