[m3s]

I've been testing and using financial apps and I think CMFers could benefit from this one the most

You can sign up with Canadian government ID (KYC) and stack several promo codes while earning much better yields than traditional banks. You can also take collateralized loans on crypto (rather than selling for a taxable event)

Pros
Very good steady yields - weekly playouts Monday
Good security features - 2FA, whitelisted addresses, biometrics
Reputable team - this app has been around and has customer service by email
Free withdrawals - I've tested them with no issues

Cons
No self custody - tokens are lent out
No CDIC obviously - insurance options coming
No swaps - better to trade on an exchange, this app is more for the yields
Takes 24hrs to change withdrawal address - it's a security feature but I don't like this

Some of the current promo codes that can be stacked -
172616627b (my referral code) Transfer $400, get $50 in BTC after 30 days
STABLE10 Coin Transfer $50 in USDC / USDT, get $10 in BTC after 30 days
STABLE50 Coin Transfer $200 in USDC / USDT, get $50 in BTC after 30 days
STABLE600 Coin Transfer $25K in USDC / USDT, get $600 in BTC after 90 days
ADA40 Transfer $400 in ADA, get $40 in ADA after 30 days
ADA500 Transfer $20000 in ADA, get $500 in ADA after 90 days

You get 8.88% yield on USDC instead of Canadian banks paying 1-2% promo yields. You can also get 8.88% on TCAD. You can also chose to earn CEL tokens as rewards

There's a bunch of similar promo codes for crypto tokens. I basically just farmed the promos to test out the app

 

[wayward__son]

i'll need to part ways with you here friend. 8-9% is not nearly enough to compensate me for the risk of this investment, i.e., unsecured creditor to a fintech. i dont know how much equity cushion there is nor whether there is any priority / secured debt ahead of me. you can get a sense of their business model by looking at the "borrow" page, but there's still no access to the company's books or insight into their underwriting standards.

if i want to mess around with digital assets i am buying bitcoin and ETH first and then if i want to venture out the risk curve maybe some allocation to competing layer 1s, exchange tokens, defi tokens, maybe even dabble in NFTs for fun (nice avatar btw). in these cases my potential upside is multiples higher and the downside is still limited to 100% of the dollars i put in (assuming not a margin trading degenerate).

 

[m3s]

8-9% is not nearly enough to compensate me for the risk of this investment, i.e., unsecured creditor to a fintech.

Fair enough

I think you have to be in the app to see the links to blockchain explorers for transparency on the digital assets and transactions. I think we're going to see a lot of these "centralized" front end with "decentralized" back end. I'm getting better yields using DeFi directly with my own keys but I can see why there will be a market for these apps

Just hard to watch everyone debate 1-2% yields that don't even beat inflation before tax

 

[agent99]

Something I just don't get. If you can make 8% or even much more with crypto investments, where does that gain come from? Usually, when one investor gains, another one will lose unless they are investing in a company that increases its worth.

For example, in 2017 when I first heard about Bitcoin, it was at about $1000 early in year, but ended the year at about $20,000. Not even our government can create that much money out of this air.

 

[wayward__son]

Just hard to watch everyone debate 1-2% yields that don't even beat inflation before tax

totally with you. ratio of brain damage to PNL seems way off in these debates

 

[m3s]

Something I just don't get. If you can make 8% or even much more with crypto investments, where does that gain come from? Usually, when one investor gains, another one will lose unless they are investing in a company that increases its worth.

It depends.

The stablecoins can be used as liquidity for over collateralized loans (unlike your 0% fractional reserve banks, smart contract loans are typically limited to 50% or less collateral) People with say 10-1000x capital gains are happy to pay x% to borrow stablecoins against 10-20% of their crypto collateral to get some inflationary fiat instead of triggering capital gains. There is more demand to borrow stables than to lend, whereas I see CMFers are happy to lend their fiat for smaller yield

Stablecoins can be used as liquidity for decentralized exchanges that typically earn the 0.1%-0.3% swap fees as a ratio of your liquidity provided. This means you earn more the more volume on the exchange and stablecoins typically have high volume. Most people in crypto don't want to hold stablecoins but there is demand to borrow and swap them which means the ratios are good (You probably can't fathom my yields on stables.. not to mention the governance tokens!!..)

You have to realize that these protocols are far more capital efficient than brick and mortar banks. This is what you are probably missing. Bitcoin is an entirely different beast and has nothing to do with this. Bitcoin increasing in value for the same reason gold does. Gold doesn't yield anything rather you pay to hold it and yet people do. Gold and Bitcoin are a bet against money printing. The DeFi protocols yield also have tokens that can vote on the protocols and large treasuries from yields

When I was a kid 8% yield on CAD was the norm and I'm not even a boomer. This is a money forum I don't know why people don't get how you can make 8%..

 

[agent99]

m3S, I really didn't understand much of that. I don't know what stablecoins or overcollateralized loans or governance tokens etc are. So it is all mumbo-jumbo to me and not something I will get involved with.

However, back to my question:. You said.

Bitcoin increasing in value for the same reason gold does.

I cannot imagine gold increasing in value 20X in 12 months or less. Gold is also something you can buy and store. Or even make valuable products from. It has intrinsic value. Why would I buy a Bitcoin? Just because many others are and the price is skyrocketing? I imagine there is a reason, but not something I can fathom.

 

[m3s]

This thread was about getting yield on USDC stablecoins because I know CMFers don't get crypto. I don't actually buy or hold BTC but I'll ELI5 it again anyways

I cannot imagine gold increasing in value 20X in 12 months or less. Gold is also something you can buy and store. Or even make valuable products from. It has intrinsic value.

Maybe you should ask the people in Lebanon or Venezuela how gold can 20x vs their fiat or maybe the Afghans can explain it better. The vast majority of gold is stored in vaults and not turned into anything with intrinsic value. Rather it is secured at great expense. Its value is derived from supply and demand because it is finite and scarce unlike fiat.

Why would I buy a Bitcoin? Just because many others are and the price is skyrocketing? I imagine there is a reason, but not something I can fathom.

Again this thread wasn't about Bitcoin and I don't buy Bitcoin but I'll try. The reason is purely supply and demand. Like gold it is a store of value against inflation. However unlike gold, no military or government can take it with force or confiscate it. Also unlike gold it can be stored and transported in your mind.

It doesn't really matter if the older generation doesn't value it because the incoming generation does and adoption is increasing with them.

 

[agent99]

It doesn't really matter if the older generation doesn't value it because the incoming generation does and adoption is increasing with them.

Well, I hope the younger generation get to understand this better than us old fogeys. Even my economics professor friend doesn't get it and he has tried a lot harder than I have! He figures it is a tool for those who want their transactions to be untraceable!

Regarding gold, that 2017 20X increase in value was in US$, not Bolivars. Presumably you could have sold $1000 worth of gold in January to buy Bitcoins, then in December sold your bitcoin and bought back almost 20x as much gold. (gold increased from $1150 to $1290/oz in 2017. I still don't get it! But so be it. Enough from me.

 

[m3s]

Even my economics professor friend doesn't get it and he has tried a lot harder than I have! He figures it is a tool for those who want their transactions to be untraceable!

How old is this prof friend? Transactions can be "mixed" but that only makes them slightly harder to trace.

Digital transactions are far more traceable than cash. Both recent hacks were traced thanks to all the KYC nowadays. Even the silk road guy was traced back to an email account on a forum or something.. The new protocols will have self-controlled ID built in

I'm listening to many podcasts with economists who very much get it. It actually shows how little people understand economics in the first place because markets are markets. Money is only worth what someone will give you for it. Your house is worth what someone will pay for it. That's it

The reason for the explosive growth is metcalfe's law and the debasement of the unit you are measuring in.

 

[agent99]

He is retired and in 70s. Has written several books and papers on economics and things like monetary and fiscal policy. Most of which goes over my head,

Money is only worth what someone will give you for it. Your house is worth what someone will pay for it. That's it

Almost everyone knows that, especially us old codgers. We have been around the block more than once.

Just be careful. Sounds like you are really into this stuff. Don't let it backfire on you.

 

[m3s]

Warren Buffet doesn't get it but he also didn't get FANG. Doesn't mean he was a bad investor just from a different era

My computer science profs were far behind the industry that was changing faster than the text book editions could print

People struggle to accept radically new information that is still developing in real time

 

[sags]

Governments and the financial system are jumping right over crypto as a solution to their own solution using the preferred digital fiat currencies.

It reminds me of the rush for dot mobi domain names when smartphones started accessing the internet. Many thought all the corporations and businesses would have to buy a dot mobi domain built specifically for the smartphone platform. They were wrong. The businesses adapted their dot com websites to recognize if a search was done on a computer or phone and render the website accordingly. The result was dot mobi flopped and people lost a lot of money investing in dot mobi domain names. I see the same happening in crypto mania.

The Bank for International Settlements will test the use of central bank digital currencies with Australia, Malaysia, Singapore and South Africa in an experiment that could lead to a more efficient global payments platform.

Codenamed “Project Dunbar,” the study aims to develop prototypes for a common platform that will enable international settlement in digital fiat currencies issued by central banks, BIS said in a release Thursday. The system would allow direct transactions in central bank digital currencies, or CBDCs, between institutions, while reducing time and cost, according to BIS.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/central-bank-digital-currencies-tested-040000941.html

 

[m3s]

You think CBDC will replace smart contract networks and decentralized apps

All this says is they can do digital payments with legacy fiat. That's great. About time. They don't replace existing stablecoins because those are specific to each network. Blockchains monetize P2P transactions of art, music, gaming, experiences, computation, data etc without the need for fiat and intermediaries (or central banks..) CBDC is just a hybrid to the legacy system

Anyways this thread was supposed to be an example of how you could earn better yields on your fiat.

Nevermind - enjoy your 1% negative real returns

 

[james4beach]

Something I just don't get. If you can make 8% or even much more with crypto investments, where does that gain come from? Usually, when one investor gains, another one will lose unless they are investing in a company that increases its worth.

Well I'm young, and I'm a computer scientist, and I worked in cryptography. You're not the only one who doesn't "get it". A lot of this stuff doesn't make sense, even to experts like me.

Our people (not just me, but also PhDs at my last firm) all looked at this stuff, and we basically think it's a kind of convoluted shell game / scam. Lots of techno babble that superficially sounds impressive, but doesn't actually make sense. That's why I don't invest in it.

We even had crypto firms approach our company and ask us to join their ventures in partnership. We analyzed their claims, and rejected their invitation.

When I say this stuff, other young people usually respond and say that I just don't get it. Well maybe, but I am an expert directly in this field (including the cryptography and networks).

It's possible that for some reason, I just don't get it. But if that's the case ... do you really want to invest in something that even experts (like me) can't decipher? That's not a good sign.

 

[wayward__son]

When I say this stuff, other young people usually respond and say that I just don't get it. Well maybe, but I am an expert directly in this field (including the cryptography and networks).

It's possible that for some reason, I just don't get it. But if that's the case ... do you really want to invest in something that even experts (like me) can't decipher? That's not a good sign.

you have a lot of great stuff on this forum, but you've also been here advising against bitcoin since late 2013. that was around the time of one of bitcoin's early 'bubble' tops, when the price spiked from around US$100 to US$1100, then falling to as low as $300, before its next 'bubble' which occurred in 2017. for you to be vindicated on this call we would need to see an approximately 97-99% crash. not saying it can't happen, but you may wish to consider the possibility that there is more substance to this than you think.

this is setting aside everything else in crypto, and apologies to m3s for completely derailing this thread.

 

[Fain]

Celcius is good but prefer crypto.com. 12% yields for USDT and USDC. . .

I prefer more equity related exposure in the crypto space for multi bagger returns.

 

[Fain]

How old is this prof friend? Transactions can be "mixed" but that only makes them slightly harder to trace.

Digital transactions are far more traceable than cash. Both recent hacks were traced thanks to all the KYC nowadays. Even the silk road guy was traced back to an email account on a forum or something.. The new protocols will have self-controlled ID built in

I'm listening to many podcasts with economists who very much get it. It actually shows how little people understand economics in the first place because markets are markets. Money is only worth what someone will give you for it. Your house is worth what someone will pay for it. That's it

The reason for the explosive growth is metcalfe's law and the debasement of the unit you are measuring in.

Do you have crypto credit card at all(mogo, crypto.com, blockfi)? I get 5% cashback and free netflix, spotify, amazon with the Visa Card from crypto.com

 

[m3s]

Do you have crypto credit card at all(mogo, crypto.com, blockfi)? I get 5% cashback and free netflix, spotify, amazon with the Visa Card from crypto.com

I hear podcast ads for it a lot lately. I know Celsius, Voyager, Coinbase etc will all have debit/credit cards coming

Do Canadians get this or is it the US based Visa?

 

[sags]

Do you have crypto credit card at all(mogo, crypto.com, blockfi)? I get 5% cashback and free netflix, spotify, amazon with the Visa Card from crypto.com

Who pays for the promotions ?