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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Will Canada be able to withstand Liberal Governments managing our economy? Here is a synopsis of the economic management of 3 Liberal Governments

Pierre Trudeau’s Economic Management As Prime Minister

Eric Margolis quantified the economic results of Pierre Trudeau's legacy of Big Government upon Trudeau’s death in 2000. Here is his summary from the 2000 article:

Under Pierre Trudeau’s Economic Leadership:

· The national debt grew from $11.3-billion in 1968 to $128-billion in 1984 (that is a 1048% increase).

· The annual federal deficit went from zero to $25-billion.

· Ottawa's spending rose from 30% of Canada's total economic output to nearly 53%

· The Canadian dollar plummeted from around US$1.06 in 1970 to 66 cents.

· The unemployment rate ran between three and five percentage points higher in Canada than in the United States

· Canada reduced itself from being one of the world's three richest nations 30 years ago (along with Switzerland and the U.S.) to one of the three leading debtor nations in the West, alongside Belgium and Italy.

Where are we now under Justin Trudeau’s Leadership:

· The combined federal and provincial net debt is $1.3 trillion. The combined debt equals 64.8% of the economy or $35,827 for every man, woman or child living in Canada

· Spending on interest payments consumes government revenues and leaves less money available for other important priorities such as spending on health care and education or tax relief. Canadian governments (including local governments) collectively spent an estimated $60.8 billion on interest payments in 2014/15. That works out to 8.1% of their total revenue that year

· Justin Trudeau ran an election campaign of increasing deficits and ultimately increasing the federal debt.

· Trudeau is jet setting around the world spending billions of tax payer’s dollars on climate change, foreign aid and refugee resettlement.

· He has only been in power for 3 months and with Canada’s economy in a steep nose dive he claims that his election promise of running $10 billion deficits was only a guideline. He claims that in reality the deficits will likely be much larger.

And How About Kathleen Wynne’s Economic Leadership:

· Ontario is the largest sub-national debtor in the entire world, just one alarming distinction. Its debt is more than twice that of California, a state with three times the population and one that has its own severe fiscal problems.

· Ontario’s debt is $294 billion, or over $21,000 per capita.

· In 2015 the Ontario deficit was larger than the deficit of the federal government and the other 9 provinces combined.

· Ontario’s net debt to GDP is up 48 per cent in the past 10 years to almost 40 per cent.

· Last year’s interest obligations totalled $11.4 billion, about the same as the cost of community and social services.

· Not surprisingly, Standard and Poor’s downgraded Ontario’s bond credit from AA- to A+, citing a very high debt burden and very weak budgetary performance

Hold onto your hats – Canadians will suffer very tough economic times under Justin Trudeau’s and Kathleen Wynne’s “tax and spend” governments. We cannot afford a Liberal government in Ontario and a Liberal government in Ottawa bankrupting our future for their own political gains.
 

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The "tough economic times" come from global factors, namely crashing commodity prices and a slowing global economy with credit contraction.

It has nothing to do with the government in power. Canada's previous growth had nothing to do with Harper, either.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I fully agree that "tough economic times" come from global factors.

However the Liberals (specifically Pierre Trudeau, Justin Trudeau, McGuinty and Wynne) have a track record of big government spending on borrowed money. Our federal and provincial deficits and debt are now so large that the interest payments alone are drowning us.

There is a snow balls chance in hell that either Wynne or Trudeau will ever balance their budgets by the end of their 4 year terms.
 

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Liberal government

One can only hope that Justine has good advisers. Ontario Liberals have wracked havoc on our economy. Their energy policy has been a particularly dumb effort to waste taxpayers money.
 

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That's why I had to laugh when JT said on the campaign that "Liberals know how to balance budgets", or words to that effect.
 

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I would suggest that you take a look at the two largest deficit incurring Federal Goverments of late...both by a very wide margin.

Who were they?

The Conservatine Governments of both Btrian Mulroney and Stephen Harper.

Paul Martin looked cheap and miserly compared to Jim Flarherty. Martin was left with Mulroney's financial mess. Flarherty was left with a balanced budget and a significantly reduced level of federal debt.

Yet people still believe that the Liberals are free spenders and the Tories better money managers. The facts do not reflect these perceptions. It is early days yet.
 

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Paul Martin looked cheap and miserly compared to Jim Flarherty. .
Remember the world recession? Remember how Liberals were screaming that the government should spend more money faster?

Looking at numbers, Harper's government increased debt by 12% to 542 billion and left a balanced budget which isn't bad compared to the rest of the developed world. What's more, debt growth was same as GDP growth, so the level of debt as proportion of the economy has not changed. Paul Martin/Chretien left a debt of 482 billion; almost unchanged from what they inherited which is a good performance. Mulroney increased debt by 67%; not great.

The one who stands out is Trudeau - the daddy. He increased debt by a whopping 740%. Future generations had to pay for his "generosity". Early indications for Trudeau-the-son are not so good.
 

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If "spending our way out of debt" was a legitimate tactic, or even just "deficit budgets" we're legit, how come the government doesn't ban foreclosures, repossession, or other similar things for the individuals who try to mimic the government...after all, individual spending is an ecconomic driver...repayment of debt is bad for the economy.
 

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Canada has the lowest debt to GDP level by far for the G7 countries.

http://www.budget.gc.ca/2015/docs/plan/anx2-eng.html

View attachment 8090

There is no better time to spend than at a time when the world is teetering on the brink of recession, people need jobs, interest rates can be locked in long term for historically low rates, and Canada badly needs to upgrade transit and infrastructure to accommodate future economic expansion.

As noted by some economists, Canada could have 50 Billion dollar annual deficits for 10 years and still wouldn't match the US or UK, which are also increasing every year.

The US is spending 1 Trillion a year in deficit spending. That is equivalent to 100 Billion for Canada, and nobody is proposing anywhere near that amount of spending.

The Trudeau government proposed 10 Billion in deficit spending and it is likely to grow to 25 Billion. That is still well below what Canada can "afford" to spend.

Government spending increases GDP, so if the government spent $50 Billion into the economy, it would increase the GDP and has a "multiplier" affect.

The spending would increase government revenues and therefore lessen the impact on government finances.

It isn't as though the government is going to set CAD on fire. It flows through the economy and back to the government.
 

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I would suggest that you take a look at the two largest deficit incurring Federal Goverments of late...both by a very wide margin.

Who were they?

The Conservatine Governments of both Btrian Mulroney and Stephen Harper.

Paul Martin looked cheap and miserly compared to Jim Flarherty. Martin was left with Mulroney's financial mess. Flarherty was left with a balanced budget and a significantly reduced level of federal debt.

Yet people still believe that the Liberals are free spenders and the Tories better money managers. The facts do not reflect these perceptions. It is early days yet.
You conviniently forgot that Mulroney inherited Trudeau's mess.

Canada Government Spending
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/canada/government-spending

Hit MAX above the chart.

See the huge spending jump in the early 80s? That's Trudeau.

You also conveniently forgot that Mulroney introduced the GST. Mulroney's GST is a big reason why Martin was able to balance the budgets. Who is supposed to get credit for that? Mulroney or Martin?
 

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Take a look at the Mulroney deficits. They were HUGE.

I am not saying that the Liberals were good managers. What I do believe is that when the rubber hits the road there has not been much discernable difference between Liberals and Tories. More a case of Mutt and Jeff than anything else. I certainly had. no confidence in Harper's economic policies. Jane dis zero for us in Alberta and central Canadian manufacturing has been on the decline for at least a eight years.

Canada is deeply in debt. The comparison stats we see compared to other countries typically do not include the Provincial debt. Taken together, the total is not a pretty picture.
 

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^ You can't ignore provincial debt.
Or Provincial "assets" to offset the debt.

Or outstanding pension liabilities, which put Canada in a net "positive" position, the only G7 country with more assets in pension funds than liabilities.

No matter what metric is used, Canada's debt position is grossly overstated by Conservatives when compared to other countries in the world.

The other countries will fail long before Canada would, and if that happens there will be plenty to worry about.
 

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Bottom line...both Liberals and Conservatives will remain very close to the centre on all policies-including fiscal. Fric and Frac.

Harper strayed away from centre to right on social issues and got toasted because of it. He fell into the old Reform Party hole of social policies that were unacceptable to most centre thinking Canadians.

Let's hope the Conservatives manage to elect a leader that does not come from this side of the party. It is good to have strong competition at election time.
 

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They started off by sending a jumbo jet full of bureaucrats to Paris to figure out how all the CO2 is getting into the atmosphere. Then gave away $3 billion to foreign countries getting nothing in return. So yes I would say there was a chance the Liberal government will piss it away the way they always do.

In short, we can't afford a Liberal government but that never stops us from electing them.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Canada sent 383 people to the UN climate conference, more than Australia, the U.K. and U.S. combined.

Not a bad turnout for a country that emits just 1.6 per cent of the planet’s greenhouse gases.

Justin Trudeau spares no expense when finding ways to waste tax payer's dollars.
 
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