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Discussion Starter #41 (Edited)
I don't understand why some people rush to the aid of a bunch of super wealthy people who hire accountants and lawyers to set up offshore accounts and find novel ways to avoid paying the rightful taxes on their wealth.

Joe factory worker works all week and then gets whats left after the government has already taken their taxes. The wealthy say "catch me if you can" with the tax collector and have their lawyers drag out cases tax courts.

Comparing incomes and wealth for average people to these super wealthy who don't want to pay taxes and donate less of a % of their incomes than average people is a ridiculous comparison.

I think people forget the part that average people need their incomes to live. The wealthy don't.

The wealthy find new ways to waste.....what other people don't have enough of.

It was just announced how much the top wealthy have gained during the pandemic.

The numbers are sickening to anyone who struggles to live.
 

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Discussion Starter #42
US Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen is proposing to foreign governments a "global tax rate" so corporations can't continue to avoid paying taxes due. I hope she includes the super rich as well.
 

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Ontario.
Like I said, exact same house design, same builder, across the street, but they have a larger lot.
MPAC don't care, they're a monopoly, and not much you can do about them.

I actually don't have a problem with non-exploitive monopolies. But when they abuse their monopoly power, like MPAC, or Governments, I have an issue.
Have you used aboutmyproperty? It lets you can compare the key factors with a bunch of neighbourhood properties. Quality of construction is the big one that differentiates value. MPAC also thought I had a recent Reno. I took pics of the kitchen and baths, along with the date codes on the kitchen appliances to show my kitchen is 12 years old, not the 2 years old they stated.
 

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Have you used aboutmyproperty? It lets you can compare the key factors with a bunch of neighbourhood properties. Quality of construction is the big one that differentiates value. MPAC also thought I had a recent Reno. I took pics of the kitchen and baths, along with the date codes on the kitchen appliances to show my kitchen is 12 years old, not the 2 years old they stated.
At the time I used the MPAC database they give you access to.
It was the EXACT SAME HOME. Same materials, same builder, same model.
Literally the only difference was different shades of "builder beige" paint and tile.

That's how I know it's a BS system.
 

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I don't understand why some people rush to the aid of a bunch of super wealthy people who hire accountants and lawyers to set up offshore accounts and find novel ways to avoid paying the rightful taxes on their wealth.
Who's doing that?
Not anyone here.

It was just announced how much the top wealthy have gained during the pandemic.

The numbers are sickening to anyone who struggles to live.
Why?
How does someone getting rich hurt you?
It doesn't.

You seem to think that there is a fixed amount of wealth, and for there to be rich people gaining, there have to be poor people losing.
It simply doesn't work that way.

Labour MAKES wealth, farmers turn dirt & water into food. The fact that a farmer has a lot of food wealth isn't causing others to go hungry.

I WANT more people collecting wealth, because more wealth in existance makes EVERYONE richer.

Lets say you have a superfarmer, he makes massive amounts of Food wealth, guess what, that means there's more food for everyone to eat. With a bigger supply, the price drops and there is more food for ALL of us to eat.
I don't care what he does with his wealth, in fact I'd be glad for him to trade $600k in food for a silly old video game, wouldn't you?

The problem is you're so angry about the wealthy, you'd rather we all do with less, than to have someone else super wealthy.

It's really your own selfishness and greed, it bothers you that someone else is rich, and your "solution" is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Are you so angry that you'd sacrifice all the progress Tesla has made in electric cars, just to keep Elon Musk from being super rich?
Your level of short sighted selfishness makes me sick.
 

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Discussion Starter #46 (Edited)
Your example of the "super farmer" is mumbo jumbo economic nonsense.

Farmers have input costs. If they produce surplus food that exceeds the demand for it and the price drops, the farmer is working each acre for less profit, because his input costs remain the same per acre regardless of the market price of the commodity.

Ask grain farmers how happy they are when the commodity price of a bushel of wheat doesn't cover their input costs.

Apparently for you, the income and wealth gaps aren't a problem now and never will be.

A lot of economists and government leaders would disagree with you.
 

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Discussion Starter #47 (Edited)
As to the wealthy person buying the old game for 600K......there was a story about an 8 year old boy who has spent a year making and selling key chains online to raise money to pay off his fellow students $4,000 "cafeteria debt" so they could buy food for lunch. The young lad has paid off all the student debts in numerous schools as the public is avidly supporting his effort.

He could have sold the key chains and bought video games, but apparently even at his young age he is wiser and has a better developed value system than the rich person with more money than brains.

The rich person will never play the game he bought. They will keep it locked up and only show people they want to impress with the special "achievement" their wealth has made possible.
 

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Your example of the "super farmer" is mumbo jumbo economic nonsense.

Farmers have input costs. If they produce surplus food that exceeds the demand for it and the price drops, the farmer is working each acre for less profit, because his input costs remain the same per acre regardless of the market price of the commodity.

Ask grain farmers how happy they are when the commodity price of a bushel of wheat doesn't cover their input costs.

Apparently for you, the income and wealth gaps aren't a problem now and never will be.

A lot of economists and government leaders would disagree with you.
No my superfarmer is a pretty clear example.

Farmers create wealth.
A farmer that creates a lot of wealth is doing a good thing. Because we get a lot of food. That's a win for everyone.

You're right, I don't see why income or wealth gaps are a problem.
Honestly, if you have $100 and someone else has $200 or $1000 or $20 000, you still have $100.
The only problem is you are jealous.

In your world the farmer that produces enough food for 10 people is good, and the farmer that produces enough for 10 000 is bad, and should have his farm seized.
The socialists have tried this, it results in famine and starvation.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
Because 20 years ago, average folks could have $10,000 and a rich person had $10,000,000.

Today those average folks have $1,000 left and the rich person has $100,000,000

That is how income and wealth disparity works. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

The wealth accumulation by the wealthy during the pandemic while many people lost everything and depended on government support, was a huge transfer of wealth from the poor and middle class to the wealthy.
 

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Discussion Starter #50 (Edited)
I read posts that say "SAGs wants government money.....blah, blah, blah".

Tell you what, all our income is our own earned from a combined 80 years of work.

We never collected a dime in "baby bonus" because we earned "too much" and paid taxes on all the earnings. We collect OAS because everyone pays taxes to provide it.....including us who earned more than "average incomes in retirement" and pay taxes each year accordingly

Over 30 years of fundraising, my wife and I have run dozens of baseball and hockey tournaments for 32 teams, ran an NHL alumnus game that filled the local arena with 5,000 people, ran dances for 500 people, raffles, BBQs, ran bingos,.organized employee contributions, went door to door for the Heart & Stroke Foundation, and contributed far more of OUR own money as a % than most of the billionaire class, so until you can match or top our history of giving you likely could be doing a lot more than you are.
 

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Because 20 years ago, average folks could have $10,000 and a rich person had $10,000,000.

Today those average folks have $1,000 left and the rich person has $100,000,000

That is how income and wealth disparity works. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

The wealth accumulation by the wealthy during the pandemic while many people lost everything and depended on government support, was a huge transfer of wealth from the poor and middle class to the wealthy.
Actually today those average folks have 20k and the rich person has 100M,.
That's how progress works, the rich get richer, but the poor get richer too.

Growing up most families had 1 TV and 1 car, no AC, no computer.
Now we have multiple TVs, multiple cars, AC, and even kids are walking around with supercomputers.

The thing you, and most redistributionists don't seem to understand is the wealthy of today got it by creating new wealth.
it isn't being transferred to them, they're creating it.

If wealth was fixed, and they were stealing it, sure I'd be all for wealth redistribution.
However the reality is that each persons wealth is growing, theirs is just growing more.

A rising tide raises all boats.
 

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Discussion Starter #52 (Edited)
The rising tide only lifts people who can afford boats.

Everyone else is up to their necks treading water from the rising tide.

I think people need some perspective on the super wealthy like Jeff Bezos.

He has $177 billion dollars......which doesn't sound like all that much when you say it quickly.

Try saying that Bezos fortune is equal to 177,000 times $1,000,000 for context, and he donated 175 of those millions, which is what .001%

His donation was also tax deductible and about equal to his tax rebate from the government, after Amazon paid no US corporate taxes at all.

Provide some evidence that billionaires getting more billions is creating wealth for everyone else ?

Most of the wealth retained by people in the last year is from government support programs, not being evicted for not paying their rent, subsidized hydro and loan deferrals.

But yea, it is his money and he can spend it as he wishes.

Maybe he plans to "take it with him" when he croaks.
 

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The rising tide only lifts people who can afford boats. Everyone else is up to their necks in water from the rising tide.

I think people need some perspective on the super wealthy like Jeff Bezos.

He has $177 billion dollars......which doesn't sound like all that much when you say it quickly.
No he doesn't, he has a big chunk at a company that someone thinks is worth 170+ Billion dollars

Provide some evidence that billionaires getting more billions is creating wealth for everyone else ?
I can get millions of products shipped to my house in a day or two, at lower prices than the local stores.
That's real value.

I can rent a computer for pennies an hour, and I can rent pretty much as many as I want.

I can watch movies and TV for free over the internet.
I can store unlimited photos on a backed up server on the internet.

All that for the cost of shipping less than a dozen normal parcels.
Thank you Amazon


You simply don't understand that people can do work and create wealth.
You seem to think that there is a limited amount of wealth in the world, when the reality is that there is unlimited wealth out there, you just have to go make it.
 

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Discussion Starter #55 (Edited)
From where I sit in the sunshine of the happy Liberal camp, it seems to me that Conservatives are the ones sitting in the gloomy dark always complaining to unimpressed voters, who happen to pass by.

Me....I think Trudeau is great, immigration is great, national debt is no problem, ....

But his work is not finished yet. Another term or two should wrap things up nicely.

 

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Tell you what, all our income is our own earned from a combined 80 years of work.

We never collected a dime in "baby bonus" because we earned "too much" and paid taxes on all the earnings. We collect OAS because everyone pays taxes to provide it.....including us who earned more than "average incomes in retirement" and pay taxes each year accordingly

Over 30 years of fundraising, my wife and I have run dozens of baseball and hockey tournaments for 32 teams, ran an NHL alumnus game that filled the local arena with 5,000 people, ran dances for 500 people, raffles, BBQs, ran bingos,.organized employee contributions, went door to door for the Heart & Stroke Foundation, and contributed far more of OUR own money as a % than most of the billionaire class, so until you can match or top our history of giving you likely could be doing a lot more than you are.
Tell you what, you are right, all your income is your own and you earned it. No one else has the right to tell you how to spend your money (or time) nor do they have the right to tell you what you do with your hard earned money or if you have The same goes for you, you have no right to tell someone else how they show spend their money or if they are doing enough, even if they have so much more than you. It's not about percentages or how much one gives. That's only up to the person that earned the money to decide.

Why should you get to decide on how someone spends their hard earned money, just because you THINK you have done more.

Do I get to decide that you aren't doing enough because I have done almost everything on your list or an equivalent, plus more for longer, even though I am only in my mid 40's, I have more than 30 years of charity and volunteer work. Does that give me the 'right' to say you haven't done enough? I don't think so. You earned your money through the choices you make, you decide how you want to spend it.
 

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Discussion Starter #58 (Edited)
I agree that people (including the wealthy) can spend their money on anything they want.

But that doesn't mean I have to approve or remain silent (tacit approval) on how they spend it ?
 

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Discussion Starter #59
CMF posters continually lament the spending of some members of their families or the general public, but vigorously defend the right of the wealthy to spend their money anyway they want.
 

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I agree that people (including the wealthy) can spend their money on anything they want.

But that doesn't mean I have to approve or remain silent (tacit approval) on how they spend it ?

Do you plan on not having any opinion on how your kids spend their money in the future ?

Feel free to judge away on how others spend their money. That is your right. I don't know what it will accomplish, other than have others judge you on your opinions. I guess I just don't really see the point. It seems really entitled to think we have to right judge others that have really no impact on us personally.

I may have an opinion on how my kids spend future, but I won't be expressing in terms of a judgement. I won't 'approve' or 'disapprove' on how they spend their money unless it impacts me. I have many opinions on how they spend MY money now which I do approve and disapprove because it does impact me.

I will give my guidance to my kids if they are living a lifestyle they cannot afford to maintain. Not being able to afford includes going in to debt, requiring subsidies from anyone include family, friends, or governments. As long as their earned the money with the values that hopefully we have instilled, we have no right to say anything, whether it's $1000 or $187000000000.
 
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