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If cases remain low, it bodes well for a strong economic recovery…..maybe too strong?
... I don't see it being "too strong" at all. Certainly not with "cases still remaining low". We would be "very" lucky to see a "strong" economic recovery meaning like back to what it was before (aka the "norm"), if there're next to nothing cases.

Right now with the Reopening of such venues (especially indining), it's "pent-up" demand. It'll revert back to the "norm". Human habits are hard to die.

But if you get up to leave or use the washroom, mask needs to go back on. I guess it’s the only solution, but feels weird being maskless for 90 mins in an indoor setting, yet I need to wear a mask grocery shopping or paying for gas.
... don't blame you for feeling weird but weird looking too, to me. Servers need to have to their mask on while patrons don't (while eating of course), all within the same place/time. How practical is that? This is my observation from take-out.
 

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... don't blame you for feeling weird but weird looking too, to me. Servers need to have to their mask on while patrons don't (while eating of course), all within the same place/time. How practical is that? This is my observation from take-out.
Maybe not practical, but can make some intuitive sense. The patrons are generally sticking with their own bubble at the table so they aren't going to interact that closely with other patrons. Servers, on the other hand are going from table to table, so if they get infected, they'll likely spread it around different bubbles and you can get multiple outbreaks.
 

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Staff in service businesses are, for the most part, feeling vulnerable with unmasked customers and some of them 'thank' me for still wearing a mask indoors when I chat with them in the aisles or at the cashier. They are wearing masks to try and protect themselves from the 'unwashed' 20% of so who still are not vaccinated and almost certainly unmasked. I don't blame them.

Some personal service businesses like hairdressers, dentists, massage therapy, etc. are still requiring masks to enter their businesses and I support that 100%. It is respectful and courteous to others. I will likely continue to do that until our regional new active daily case count drops to less than one per 100,000 population. Right now, we are running closer to 5 new cases per day per 100,000 population and that does not include those not being tested.
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
I get the feeling, watching how people are acting, that many think the pandemic is over. In our area, it is essentially or at least, it is taking a summer break!. Just one active case at present among the 200,000+ population covered by the health unit. Surrounding health unit counts also in low single digits. So, not surprising we are letting our guards down.

However, only 1/2 Canada's population have received two doses of a vaccine. Restaurants and other public places are opening up. And now we will allow travellers from other countries to once again visit. Have we waited long enough? Somehow, I don't think so.

BTW, Our American friends are in process of finding out, as are the Brits.
 

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I get the feeling, watching how people are acting, that many think the pandemic is over. In our area, it is essentially or at least, it is taking a summer break!. Just one active case at present among the 200,000+ population covered by the health unit. Surrounding health unit counts also in low single digits. So, not surprising we are letting our guards down.

However, only 1/2 Canada's population have received two doses of a vaccine. Restaurants and other public places are opening up. And now we will allow travellers from other countries to once again visit. Have we waited long enough? Somehow, I don't think so.

BTW, Our American friends are in process of finding out, as are the Brits.
I have to point out though, our fully vaccinated rate is higher than the US and UK when they started opening up, or before the increase in new infections. In the UK, case loads started climbing at the end of May/beginning of June and they only had 38% fully vaccinated. US cases are starting to climb earlier this month when their percentage was around 46%. We're a little better now at 52% with no spike yet. If we take precautions, we may still have a fourth wave, but maybe not as sharp. In the UK, they may be seeing the top of their peak, while the US's cases are still rising. Maybe by end of Aug/beginning of Sept we'll know whether a fourth wave will be avoided, or if it will hit.
 

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All of us, i.e. the UK, USA, Canada and others will have new spikes for being premature with 'optional' masking. There is no doubt in my mind about that. The question is, what rate of hospitalization and deaths will result? Very few from the fully vaccinated, immunocompromised individuals aside, but there will be a disproportionate number of the 'unwashed' who do end up in hospital and die, and the bigger issue may be the <12 group who will be going back to school right about the time of another peak. Oh joy!
 

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All of us, i.e. the UK, USA, Canada and others will have new spikes for being premature with 'optional' masking.
The question is what you mean by premature. Do you mean we need 90% full vaccination before dropping the mandated masking? Or is 70% enough?

There's no real correct answer, it's all about risk analysis. Personally, I'm fine with wearing a mask indoors when shopping etc, due to the large amount of people you get into contact with. Maybe part of the health and safety guidelines would mandate mask wearing for servers and similar workers. That's not much more than the hygienic requirements to wear hairnets and the like as cooks.
 

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Sure it is based on probablities but modeling I have read about is suggesting 80+% for the new Delta variant for first dose and not far behind for 2 doses. It is very much tied to transmissibility and infectious (viral) load. And particularly when we now know the main vehicle for transmissibility is airborne, i.e. indoor spaces and quality of HVAC systems.

Keeping the mask mandate to the end of July could have made a difference to holding down the increases in new daily active cases that are now occurring in a number of locations. I see potentially an explosion in daily case counts in our highly tourist oriented location, even if we are 80+% in 1st dose and circa 50% in 2nd dose.
 

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Sure it is based on probablities but modeling I have read about is suggesting 80+% for the new Delta variant for first dose and not far behind for 2 doses. It is very much tied to transmissibility and infectious (viral) load. And particularly when we now know the main vehicle for transmissibility is airborne, i.e. indoor spaces and quality of HVAC systems.
Personally, I think the government should provide some support for businesses to upgrade HVAC systems, but that's another issue.

Keeping the mask mandate to the end of July could have made a difference to holding down the increases in new daily active cases that are now occurring in a number of locations. I see potentially an explosion in daily case counts in our highly tourist oriented location, even if we are 80+% in 1st dose and circa 50% in 2nd dose.
It may help. Although based on the fact that Alberta opened up pretty early in July and there hasn't been an explosion of cases is a good sign. Unfortunately, based on the current trends, it looks like we'll peak in the mid-70%... assuming everyone who got their first dose gets the second one. Given that supply isn't an issue, everyone who wants the first shot, has the opportunity and since it has been a while, the 1st dose isn't budging much.
 

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The last holdout in my extended family capitulated today and got her first dose (AB). So there are stragglers who will still get on board. There could be another bump if there are real restrictions about going certain places without being double vaccinated. BC is just over 80% for first dose and am guessing it won't get much higher at least not until a fourth wave of the unwashed.
 

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Why stop there? Why not just shoot people on the spot if they aren't vaccinated? That will surely increase uptake of first doses to 100%!
It is not like anyone gives a **** about human rights, privacy, medical intervention, etc.
 

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Servers, on the other hand are going from table to table, so if they get infected, they'll likely spread it around different bubbles and you can get multiple outbreaks.
Servers are exposed to a huge number of strangers each day. Similar to other store employees.

I hope that employees are smart enough to keep wearing masks, whenever they are working indoors.
 

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I get the feeling, watching how people are acting, that many think the pandemic is over.
. . .
BTW, Our American friends are in process of finding out, as are the Brits.
Exactly. Many people think it's over, or they never really cared, and now they can return to all the activities they always wanted to do anyway.

When I look at the bars and restaurants around where I live, it's bedlam. Everyone drinking, laughing, shrieking and spitting at each other.

I'm optimistic about the vaccines, but it's really too early to call this "done". My hope is that hospitalizations stay somewhat low in the coming months, and I am even considering resuming my international travel, but IMO it's too early to make those decisions. We really first have to see what happens in cold & flu season.

I am flying domestically in a few weeks, finally able to visit some family, but that's as adventurous as I will get for now.
 

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Why stop there? Why not just shoot people on the spot if they aren't vaccinated? That will surely increase uptake of first doses to 100%!
It is not like anyone gives a **** about human rights, privacy, medical intervention, etc.
... why the need to resort to violence? The unvaccinateds need coddling and here's the evidence in Canada & the USA:

New City of Regina vaccination pop-up clinics offer free Queen City Ex tickets | Globalnews.ca

How to Get the Best COVID-19 Vaccine Freebies and Incentives, from Food to Money to Sports Tickets

Free exhibition tickets, free foods, free alchohol, scholarships, prizes and hell even a $5M lottery. And not just the USA but in Canada as well... free $$$$ for the whimps to get a wash...months ago. Too many to list.

You can call these incentives as a bribe if you want. But then the "cry" here about human rights, privacy, medical intervention, etc. being trumped over shows it's nothing but Troll 'R Us exercise (aka too much time on hands with nothing better else to do).
 

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Servers are exposed to a huge number of strangers each day. Similar to other store employees.

I hope that employees are smart enough to keep wearing masks, whenever they are working indoors.
That's why I was proposing that employees of that type are probably best served by wearing masks. However, I'm sure there are going to be some pushback from some.
 

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... why the need to resort to violence? The unvaccinateds need coddling and here's the evidence in Canada & the USA:

New City of Regina vaccination pop-up clinics offer free Queen City Ex tickets | Globalnews.ca

How to Get the Best COVID-19 Vaccine Freebies and Incentives, from Food to Money to Sports Tickets

Free exhibition tickets, free foods, free alchohol, scholarships, prizes and hell even a $5M lottery. And not just the USA but in Canada as well... free $$$$ for the whimps to get a wash...months ago. Too many to list.

You can call these incentives as a bribe if you want. But then the "cry" here about human rights, privacy, medical intervention, etc. being trumped over shows it's nothing but Troll 'R Us exercise (aka too much time on hands with nothing better else to do).
Carrot is much different than a stick.
I don't want my tax money used as bribes, but still rather see them as a bribe to citizens to get them vaccinated (if it's tiny stuff like you mentioned) then bribes to Aga Khan, SNC Lavalin, or We Charity so don't mind it at all.
Stick is unacceptable though as it requires people to disclose private medical records to pretty much everyone, discriminates against those who can't get vaccinated for religious or medical reasons. In short - it violates basic rights.

So yeah, carrot is fine by me ethically. Government wastes much bigger amounts in stupider ways.
Stick - absolutely unacceptable as it violates human rights.
 

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Exactly. Many people think it's over, or they never really cared, and now they can return to all the activities they always wanted to do anyway.

When I look at the bars and restaurants around where I live, it's bedlam. Everyone drinking, laughing, shrieking and spitting at each other.

I'm optimistic about the vaccines, but it's really too early to call this "done". My hope is that hospitalizations stay somewhat low in the coming months, and I am even considering resuming my international travel, but IMO it's too early to make those decisions. We really first have to see what happens in cold & flu season.

I am flying domestically in a few weeks, finally able to visit some family, but that's as adventurous as I will get for now.
So are the customers un-vaccinated or a mixture ? I am wondering how many vaccinated people want to be surrounded by those who aren't.

Personally, unless a restaurant or pub requires a vaccination.......I won't be going in.
 

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Interesting that Hilton hotels will no longer offer daily cleaning of rooms. They say they can't find enough housekeepers to do the work.

Not surprising given the low pay for the level of risk. I suspect a lot of employers are going to be in the same situation.

Our son stays at a Hilton in Toronto when working there and says the service is well below par these days.
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
So are the customers un-vaccinated or a mixture ? I am wondering how many vaccinated people want to be surrounded by those who aren't.
Apparently 100 members of the USA Olympic team are not vaccinated. The percentage that are is quite high at 83%, but apparently no checks were done to be sure athletes had answered accurately. Also not clear if that means partly or fully vaccinated.

You would think the olympics would have required teams to be vaccinated. But Japan itself has low degree of vaccination and population is apparently averse to vaccinations of all types.

Could not find equivalent info on Canada's team
 

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Apparently 100 members of the USA Olympic team are not vaccinated. The percentage that are is quite high at 83%, but apparently no checks were done to be sure athletes had answered accurately. Also not clear if that means partly or fully vaccinated.

You would think the olympics would have required teams to be vaccinated. But Japan itself has low degree of vaccination and population is apparently averse to vaccinations of all types.

Could not find equivalent info on Canada's team
Wow, that's crazy.

I did see something about one athlete who said he was waiting until after the Olympics to get vaccinated because he didn't want to take any sick days while he was in the intense training phase leading up to the Olympics. But I think that was probably a crock - I can't imagine that a rest day a few months ahead of time would harm your training that much.
 
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