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Discussion Starter #1
I believe BTCC ETF is supposed to launch on February 18th. Anyone buying? I might buy 10k for the heck of it. The Gambling Portfolio thread is to blame for my thinking. My conservative approach does quite well, but lacks excitement so it might be time to start a gambling portfolio of my own.
 

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I'm not big on this, but hopefully this etf launch will kill off all the radio ads in my market for the provate trading platforms for cryptos.

I cannot see where the manager is worth the 1% what I believe was the proposed MER for this fund.
 

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I would only put this in a TFSA, otherwise it makes more sense to hold Bitcoin directly and avoid the 1% fee.
 

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@jargey3000 BTCC has lower fees and lower premium than QBTC and others from what I can tell. BTCC is supposed to hold BTC directly

The easiest way to buy BTC directly will be Voyager when it launches in Canada. There's also Binance and Kraken but I think they still require CAD wire or payment at Canada Post
 

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The big concern with these crypto ETFs is if they actually have the assets they claim to have.

When you buy GLD ETF, it seems unclear if they actually have physical custody of the gold they claim to.
The auditors are also unclear.

For the bitcoin ETF, I'd bet that they won't publicly disclose where the assets of the ETF are.
Your bitcoin might just be a ledger entry at an exchange


You can see that several top exchanges are there, so at least in theory it seems they have something to back it up, something Quadriga apparently never did.

If I was going to invest $10k, I would go, get a wallet, and actually buy and hold myself.
 

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I'm not big on this, but hopefully this etf launch will kill off all the radio ads in my market for the provate trading platforms for cryptos.

I cannot see where the manager is worth the 1% what I believe was the proposed MER for this fund.
I thought spreads/fee on BTC trading were actually pretty high. So this might help to make BTC trading more liquid. However, it has a similar risk as gold ETFs, with the added risk that the fund can be 'robbed' more easily than with a physical asset.
 

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I'm not sure why everyone is acting like these are "firsts". There are quite a few bitcoin ETFs in Canada and even Horizons is planning to launch one soon. And I posted this thread two months ago about a new bitcoin ETF


Bitcoin, just like TSLA and GameStop, is all the rage right now.

If you read the prospectus of these things it's incredibly scary. As @andrewf says, the funds can be easily robbed, could be totally wiped out through a cyber security breach and you will be left with NOTHING. And you are fully informed of the risk because you diligently read the Prospectus of course.

Read that link above for some excerpts from the Prospectus. It's very interesting. For example "It is possible the bitcoin protocol has undiscovered flaws which could result in the loss of some or all of the assets held by the Fund."

Investing in bitcoin is a dangerous game. It's even possible for some people or group to take over the blockchain through a majority and ruin the entire mechanism. People have no idea what game they are getting into with these.
 

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^
Bitcoin, just like TSLA and GameStop, is all the rage right now.
... sounds like buying free air with real money, just like blockchain, AI, etc., etc., ... nothing but "concepts" or pulling dust particles out from thin air.

I think a joint stock is waaay safer than these - at least there is a company that cranks out /grow a physical product.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
If you think of investing as a gambling, then you may make a few times and not last for good luck. Investment is the need to look at things beyond their own value. When you hesitate, you have made up your mind. The current BTCC market is still very volatile. This needs to be observed again, but according to the current trend, it is more to go long.
Let's call it an active trading account instead that can be used to trade/hold stocks that I typically wouldn't. Maybe 0.5% of my investments.
 

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I'm not sure why everyone is acting like these are "firsts". There are quite a few bitcoin ETFs in Canada and even Horizons is planning to launch one soon. And I posted this thread two months ago about a new bitcoin ETF
This is the first "real" ETF. Apparently the others were closed-end funds. The premium to NAV could swing wildly when the BTC value fluctuated. The ETF will buy or sell Bitcoin each day, so the premium should be much more stable.
 

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I thought spreads/fee on BTC trading were actually pretty high. So this might help to make BTC trading more liquid. However, it has a similar risk as gold ETFs, with the added risk that the fund can be 'robbed' more easily than with a physical asset.
Not really, one exchange charges 0.5% -> 0.03% as your trade value changes, as long as it's within the exchange.
They do charge more for fiat conversion
You have to realize right now, the cost to make a single bitcoin transaction on chain is about $30 US.
 

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Bitcoin is a dangerous game. It's even possible for some people or group to take over the blockchain through a majority and ruin the entire mechanism. People have no idea what game they are getting into with these.
What? a majority can control something? OMG!!!

Did you know in real world we people take over entire countries through a majority?
 

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I dont know 100% but im guessing Horizons btc fund will be a swap/derivative.... you cant steel those btc.... they dont exist. National bank the counter party swap could refuse to pay though, so same outcome but NB isnt gonna stiff people like that. I like the idea of a swap structure better for btc. While im gonna hold 2-2.5% btc, Im not committed to Purpose or Horizons right now... but I'm after open ended funds on this one.... im waiting to get more info on the Horizons product....

having said this i do agree cryptos are like buying air.... they are only worth what the next guys willing to pay, but heck usd & cad get printed in the basement.....
 

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Buying Bitcoin at an all time high strikes me as a experiment in bag holding. There are something like 8000 cryptocurrencies out there - more than stocks on the New York Stock Exchange. Unlimited quantities of numbers on a computer system that can be infinitely recreated by anyone at any time. No wonder bankers are tripping over themselves to offer access to people - try to get your piece of the free money tree before it inevitably collapses on itself.
 

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Buying Bitcoin at an all time high strikes me as a experiment in bag holding. There are something like 8000 cryptocurrencies out there - more than stocks on the New York Stock Exchange. Unlimited quantities of numbers on a computer system that can be infinitely recreated by anyone at any time. No wonder bankers are tripping over themselves to offer access to people - try to get your piece of the free money tree before it inevitably collapses on itself.
Buying Google and Amazon and Apple at an all time high worked out well for me.

You're right, there are lots of stocks, and cryptocurrencies out there, also lots of bond and debt instruments.
There are apparently 9600 mutual funds in the US (quick google search)
The question is which of the thousands are worth buying.

Just because some, or many of the available options aren't good investments, doesn't mean the whole asset class is bad.

The Crypto boom is just like the Tech Boom, where they were getting massive IPO's for all sorts of silly ideas. Most of those tech companies were dumb, and not worth it.
Today there are lots of ICO's, most of them are dumb, and not worth it.

However there remains the opportunity that there will be value.


Additionally regarding digital assets. Digital assets are a thing now.
Do you realize that Fortnite had almost 2 billion dollars in revenue last year?
Do you know what the users got for those billions? A different appearance in the game, and the ability to give their character different dance moves.
You can play the exact same game, without paying a penny.
 

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Additionally regarding digital assets. Digital assets are a thing now.
Do you realize that Fortnite had almost 2 billion dollars in revenue last year?
Do you know what the users got for those billions? A different appearance in the game, and the ability to give their character different dance moves.
You can play the exact same game, without paying a penny.
Sounds like those people bought themselves some entertainment.

Is the good crypto entertaining?
 
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