Let's be clear, there's no point in trying to discuss nuance with certain people. Many are a black or white type thinking: people live or people die. The whole idea of quality of life is not even in the conversation because it makes their head explode, "Why are they complaining that they have aches and pains? They're alive aren't they?" As discussed on the other threads, the conversation pretty much needs to be kept at a basic level for engagement.The more nuanced approach is to talk about disability adjusted life years or quality adjusted life years as a result a disease. That is, how many years of life are lost vs what would have otherwise been expected absent COVID. A lot of skeptics are saying "these are all people who were going to die in a matter of years anyway". That may be true. Of course, people are also underplaying the amount of disability and reduced life span for survivors. We just say "they recovered" as if they are back to full function and it was just a mild inconvenience. Many people have severe long-lasting complications wrt kidney, liver, lung function. Some people will be permanently disabled from the ICU delirium and associated PTSD. These costs/impacts are being downplayed by the skeptics/'Rightists' (or more to the point, they are totally ignorant of these impacts).