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I‘d hate to see another lockdown during the winter months. Probably good for ski hills though - a pretty good activity to socially distance.
Somehow I think all provinces will try and avoid a Spring style lock down if they can avoid it. They will do what they can with contact tracing and do selective shutdowns just like BC has today in limiting bar hours and shutting down alcohol sales after certain times and mandating sound system volumes so people don't have to yell at each other or get into close contact. It is stupid of bars to do that sort of thing when they are supposed to be using physical distance protocols. The outliers ruin it for everyone.
 

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Well, in theory, we have had 6 months to build up contact tracing, testing capacity, ICU capacity, etc. so we are much better placed to manage a second wave. I can see certain types of business closing, but I don't think we'll return to the same degree of lockdown. I can see restaurants being severely limited in capacity and so on. I worry about places of worship. 20% capacity is probably fine, but how does one enforce that?
 

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20615


Heres an interesting graph from the USA regarding Covid deaths...looks like doctors down there are doing a stellar job. Below is Canada's death chart. Amazing how few deaths but all we hear about is rising case numbers.
20616
 

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View attachment 20615

Heres an interesting graph from the USA regarding Covid deaths...looks like doctors down there are doing a stellar job. Below is Canada's death chart. Amazing how few deaths but all we hear about is rising case numbers.
View attachment 20616
I mentioned on another thread that just being aware of the virus AND the use of masks indoors should at least reduce the number of high initial dose infections. It may not stop infections but if the initial dose is low enough it would drop the death rate dramatically. Much lower then the flu in my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #186
Here in BC, I'm still surprised that masks are not mandatory. I was just at the grocery store, and it looked like only about half the people were wearing masks.

That is despite a significant increase in cases in recent days. Apparently, nobody is worried. I talked to the manager of the store and asked if masks can be made mandatory. He said that he'd like to (and his staff wishes that customers wore masks), but the decision is not up to him.

I texted a cousin who lives in Europe about this. He was shocked that people here aren't wearing masks. Where he lives, masks are mandatory -- everywhere -- and if you are caught without one, you are required to stay home for X days. There's enforcement, too.

If the BC infections keep rising at the current pace, my guess is that masks will become mandatory.
 

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Here in BC, I'm still surprised that masks are not mandatory. I was just at the grocery store, and it looked like only about half the people were wearing masks.

That is despite a significant increase in cases in recent days. Apparently, nobody is worried. I talked to the manager of the store and asked if masks can be made mandatory. He said that he'd like to (and his staff wishes that customers wore masks), but the decision is not up to him.

I texted a cousin who lives in Europe about this. He was shocked that people here aren't wearing masks. Where he lives, masks are mandatory -- everywhere -- and if you are caught without one, you are required to stay home for X days. There's enforcement, too.

If the BC infections keep rising at the current pace, my guess is that masks will become mandatory.
Here in Ontario, the decision to make masks mandatory was left up to the municipalities. I don't know if all have done so but certainly that is the case in all major cities/towns. You cannot enter a store without a mask on.
 

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The problem is the authorities still hold to the idea that a mask only protects other people and not the person wearing them. It is nonsense. That comes from some Microbiologist comparing the size of opening between the cotton threads of a mask, to the rediculous smaller size of the virus. Without thinking one might assume that confirms that a virus will just go right through the mask. They forget that stopping 80% or more of the virus is not just better then nothing but a seriously high level of protection. If you could reduce everyone's initial dose of the virus received when they were first infected you could easily reduce the death rates recorded, in my estimate, by dividing the current numbers by 100.

Divide Canada's death rate, and correspondingly hospitalizations, by that number and tell me if you think we have a problem.

Knowing human beings are inherently selfish, this false information about masks is really killing us. Protect yourself and wear a mask.
 

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It also depends some on where in BC one is. There now seems to be more compliance in the Okanagan than in the Lower Mainland. That is self-evident based on daily new cases. Superstore and WalMart have made masks mandatory recently and I now see almost 100% compliance. I also see more people masking up going into some other establishments* BUT there is almost zero masking when walking the sidewalks outside. That is okay with me due to virus dispersal outdoors, The odds of a high viral load is pretty small outdoors.

* We need more big box names in particular making masking mandatory. That would set the example for people going into smaller businesses.
 

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We need more big box names in particular making masking mandatory. That would set the example for people going into smaller businesses.
That raises the question as to why provincial (or RHA) regulations are not making them mandatory. Do they not see them as effective in terms of big box store environments?
 

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Discussion Starter #191
The problem is the authorities still hold to the idea that a mask only protects other people and not the person wearing them. It is nonsense.
Right, very good point. I don't understand why the "official" position still says this -- it's wrong, and they've been saying this from the initial outbreak.

Masks DO protect the person wearing them. And pretty significantly!

Knowing human beings are inherently selfish, this false information about masks is really killing us. Protect yourself and wear a mask.
That's a good point and I think you're right, this false information has been resulting in deaths.
 

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That raises the question as to why provincial (or RHA) regulations are not making them mandatory. Do they not see them as effective in terms of big box store environments?
I think the primary issue (from what I have read) is provincial authorities are reluctant to slice and dice among their regions unless they have to do so. Quebec seems to be a key exception. Vancouver is a vastly different environment than Fort St. John for example.... as is Kelowna from Castlegar or Invermere within the same health region. And yet, I think they are going to have to go that route when better contact tracing makes that logic way more effective, i.e. control the problem spot but don't impact the economy where one does not have to do so.
 

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I think the primary issue (from what I have read) is provincial authorities are reluctant to slice and dice among their regions unless they have to do so. Quebec seems to be a key exception. Vancouver is a vastly different environment than Fort St. John for example.... as is Kelowna from Castlegar or Invermere within the same health region. And yet, I think they are going to have to go that route when better contact tracing makes that logic way more effective, i.e. control the problem spot but don't impact the economy where one does not have to do so.
It does appear to make sense to set regulations via RHA's or even smaller areas. With regards to the mandatory masks, that doesn't seem to really impact the economy so why not make it a regulation?
 

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It does appear to make sense to set regulations via RHA's or even smaller areas. With regards to the mandatory masks, that doesn't seem to really impact the economy so why not make it a regulation?
Because unless people see rational reasons for doing so, they will flout the law/regulation en masse. IOW, a non-sensical/non-logical approach meets widespread resistance destroying the credibility of the issuing agency when something really important needs to be done. It's human nature no different than a manager who works hard for 3 years to establish trust and respect and then blows it in one bad move....thereafter tainted, possibly forever.

It is thus a delicate matter. There would be no adherence for the most part in my part of the world if people were required to wear masks outdoors on sidewalks and paths. There are too many open spaces. That would be seen as an utterly paranoid irresponsible incompetent health agency going overboard. But when BC just very recently (this week) put the brakes on serving liquor past 10pm unless there is food service, which is then required to close by 11pm, and the requirement to keep media volumes down to conversation level, there has been very little public backlash. Some businesses have complained but others have not, and have welcomed some official support to businesses trying to do the right thing. When something appears logical, if not appealing, people will mostly grudgingly accept it.

I think the BC health regions will have to break down their protocols to smaller entities. I am sure it is coming once they are confident of their contact tracing protocols.
 

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I think the reluctance to say that masks protect the wearer is that they don't want to give people a false sense of confidence regarding distancing, etc.
 

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I think the reluctance to say that masks protect the wearer is that they don't want to give people a false sense of confidence regarding distancing, etc.
Agree. That has been stated from time to time. It is pretty easy for a mask wearer to think they are 'protected' and not be as diligent about distancing. It is an effect I have experienced long ago in vehicle rallies (specifically dune buggy in the Baja). Strap oneself into a roll cage with a 5 point harness, helmet, kidney belt, Parker air hose and a neck doughnut and one tends to feel almost completely invincible in a multi-roll situation.
 

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I think the reluctance to say that masks protect the wearer is that they don't want to give people a false sense of confidence regarding distancing, etc.
No doubt and the fact that the virus can get through the mask is real as well. So one should not stay in close proximity of others no matter whether they are wearing a mask or not. That said, it is still false to say that a mask provides no benefit to the wearer. They can significantly reduce high dose, high problem infections dramatically.

So with that in mind, they need to start an education campaign. It does not need to be overly technical. Even the idea that they can stop 80% or more of the virus coming at you is only partially correct. They stop it, but it is still on the darn mask. The mask you are breathing through. So:

1) Keep that contamination as low as possible by keeping away from others as much as possible. A lower contamination can lead to a significantly lower set of health issues and for that reason you want to keep the amount of virus, in your vicinity, as low as possible.
2) Wear a mask properly and be careful where and how you are touching it. If you do, wash your hands, etc.
3) Change the mask frequently. If you have 30 of the cheap surgical type masks. Instead of using 1 per day for the next month, during an 8 hour shift at work, use 6 per day. Let those six sit for the week and reuse them next week. After 4 uses, discard them and open a new box. If you are going into 3 stores today. Use 3 different cotton masks and wash them all when you get home to sterilize them for the next time. Much safer.

This is not difficult stuff, but just saying they provide no benefit so you won't get overconfident and get too close to others is not working well and it is wrong.
 

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I think many believe masks are a placebo and their mandated use is to keep us calm. Put a mask on in places like Midway or Rock Creek & people tend to roll their eyes and whisper to their friends. The absence of any Covid cases there does little to change their opinions.

I saw several people in Costco yesterday in Calgary openly flaunting required mask usage by wearing none...about 20% were wearing their mask incorrectly either under their chin etc. Stupid law...should have been voluntary as those who buy into mask usage actually use them properly,those that don't might as well not wear one.

I won't judge either camp.
 

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Discussion Starter #199
I think many believe masks are a placebo and their mandated use is to keep us calm. Put a mask on in places like Midway or Rock Creek & people tend to roll their eyes and whisper to their friends. The absence of any Covid cases there does little to change their opinions.

I saw several people in Costco yesterday in Calgary openly flaunting required mask usage by wearing none...about 20% were wearing their mask incorrectly either under their chin etc. Stupid law...should have been voluntary as those who buy into mask usage actually use them properly,those that don't might as well not wear one.

I won't judge either camp.
Honestly I think people in these areas (notably Alberta) are just imitating American behaviour. If it wasn't for the right wing media coming from the USA, they wouldn't have these opinions.
 

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I think we know how your political views slant your take on Canadians. Alberta has done a better job than most with Covid.
 
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