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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
The trend in BC is not good:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-covid-analysis-august-surge-1.5679225

"Young people account for most of the new spike in cases"

It's not a mystery why this is happening and I'm disappointed that public health, and police, aren't stopping this. Let me describe for you what I've been seeing over the last two days, as I walked along water front areas of Vancouver. I saw all of this directly, myself:

First, there are HUGE groups of young people. Yesterday around dusk, I saw an outdoor party kind of gathering. Someone was running a generator to power a sound system. There must have been 50 - 100 people (all in late teens or 20s) hanging out in very close proximity to each other. They're sharing snacks, hugging each other, sharing joints, etc... of course they are spreading it.

Second, a daily occurrence in many beach areas, are people in their 20s hanging out in groups. They are drinking and passing around drinks, passing around vaping and joints, so they're putting their lips all over the same things. Of course they are spreading it!

Then there are the damned bars and nightclubs. These shouldn't even be open IMO, it's ludicrous to have these open.

And I still hardly ever see 20 year olds wearing masks in stores! They just don't do it. Just about everyone else is wearing masks.

COVID fatigue? Big deal. We're coddling the young people too much. Due to their age, they are the one demographic who is most adaptable and most flexible to change. We need to put a stop to the partying and insanely large gatherings. There has to be some kind of enforcement, fines, penalties.
 

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Masks in stores are a distraction and irrelevant. It is the parties and gatherings of people to socialize in close quarters. Cases are still low, but it's a good as a time as any to start cracking down.

Of course this is not specific to BC. It is happening everywhere except in places where there are no young people. Like Atlantic Canada, for example. No COVID problems there.

Everyone could still work, the economy could still run, and everyone could still be fed and be entertained. Just don't gather in groups more than 5 or 6. Why is this so difficult? Why do groups of 20, 30, 50, 100 people still tolerated, especially with drinking? Bring out the no-fun police and start breaking it up.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Everyone could still work, the economy could still run, and everyone could still be fed and be entertained. Just don't gather in groups more than 5 or 6. Why is this so difficult? Why do groups of 20, 30, 50, 100 people still tolerated, especially with drinking? Bring out the no-fun police and start breaking it up.
Exactly. We've already opened the economy, and business as usual is here. But we're in a global pandemic. Some sacrifices have to be made, and one of those should be stopping those groups of 20, 50, 100 people (plus drinking).

The young people will still have friends. They can still socialize. They can still talk with friends. This is not an end to entertainment and socializing. It's NOT a big sacrifice, but we've got to stop the big groups and the close proximity partying/drinking.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Of course this is not specific to BC. It is happening everywhere except in places where there are no young people. Like Atlantic Canada, for example. No COVID problems there.
This is fascinating. Are the demographics very different in Atlantic Canada? And is this why there are so few cases ... the place is full of cautious, distance-maintaining older people?
 

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The trend in BC is not good:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-covid-analysis-august-surge-1.5679225

"Young people account for most of the new spike in cases"

It's not a mystery why this is happening and I'm disappointed that public health, and police, aren't stopping this. Let me describe for you what I've been seeing over the last two days, as I walked along water front areas of Vancouver. I saw all of this directly, myself:

First, there are HUGE groups of young people. Yesterday around dusk, I saw an outdoor party kind of gathering. Someone was running a generator to power a sound system. There must have been 50 - 100 people (all in late teens or 20s) hanging out in very close proximity to each other. They're sharing snacks, hugging each other, sharing joints, etc... of course they are spreading it.

Second, a daily occurrence in many beach areas, are people in their 20s hanging out in groups. They are drinking and passing around drinks, passing around vaping and joints, so they're putting their lips all over the same things. Of course they are spreading it!

Then there are the damned bars and nightclubs. These shouldn't even be open IMO, it's ludicrous to have these open.

And I still hardly ever see 20 year olds wearing masks in stores! They just don't do it. Just about everyone else is wearing masks.

COVID fatigue? Big deal. We're coddling the young people too much. Due to their age, they are the one demographic who is most adaptable and most flexible to change. We need to put a stop to the partying and insanely large gatherings. There has to be some kind of enforcement, fines, penalties.

Sorry, I'm calling BS, you can blame "young people", people always do, but that's simply not fair.
We've been under lockdown for months, and that's fine, we can all make sacrifices, and in the early days, we ALL did.

But our rates are low, and political leadership decided not to enforce the distancing measures, back in June.
So now, a month or two later everyone is starting to think it's a joke.

Once the government starts telling people the lockdown and social distancing isn't a matter of life and death, and we shouldn't take it seriously, the whole thing fell apart.
 

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Since these folks (young, old or inbetween) have the time and money to party (heh, beers cost $$$), then they can well afford a pricey fine, just like what Ford suggested here:

Ford Condemns ‘Reckless’ Brampton Party Attended By 200 People

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“Throw everything in the kitchen sink at them. $100,000, everything else. You really gotta question people,” Ford said Monday at his daily news conference.

“I’ve never seen anything like it. You’d think the cheese slipped off the cracker with these people, they just don’t get it,” he said. ...
... I'm still waiting to see the issue of the $100K fine ... not up to but at $100K.

If these folks claim that they can't afford the fine, then they should be sent to the Covid19 hospital ward to have a viewing of the ventilating patients there.
 

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It is not going to be easy. As we gain in the fight against COVID-19, we become less cautious, which leads to new smaller-scale outbreaks. We will have to go through a few such cycles, given it is very difficult to control people's (particularly the youth) behaviour.
 

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It is not going to be easy. As we gain in the fight against COVID-19, we become less cautious, which leads to new smaller-scale outbreaks. We will have to go through a few such cycles, given it is very difficult to control people's (particularly the youth) behaviour.
Do you see the large number of seniors running around without masks?
 

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If we charge these young people and then hit them with court fines and penalties, are they expected to pay these fines before or after they pay their student loans?

Young kids are steaming with hormones. They gotta socialize. It is our culture. This desire is stronger than the fear of death .

When I was a kid I used to sneak out of the house to meet friends.
Ane where being grounded when caught was secondary.

Monetary fines is not going to cure this desire within young people.

When the media talks about it being one or two years before there is any hope of "Normal", this is forever in a young person's mind.

Maybe these young people who gather in groups are somewhat like the "Bad Apples" we find elsewhere within our culture?

I'm thinking that a majority of young people are following the rules. The more we tar them all with the same brush, the larger the problem will become.
 

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The purpose of the lockdown was to flatten the curve so that it was manageable over time and more people didn't die due to the overwhelmed system and pandemonium

It's still a matter of life and death the difference is now the hospitals are prepared with space for you in an ICU and the morgue is ready to handle your extra corpse. It's all risk management and everything else is lip service. I'm protecting myself and others can party if that's their risk assessment.

Our society prides itself on freedom of choice. I see out of state plates everywhere here. Lots of NPCs lined up for ice cream. They think they're smart because you can't eat ice cream with a mask, right? It's business as usual even though we have a strict travel ban, mandatory masks, and fines in place here

Human population growth is not sustainable and nature always seems to find a way to balance things. Maybe corona will save us from the movie "Idiocracy"
 

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In AB, the largest increase is the 20-35 year olds. Unfortunately, AB is heading out of control too with the largest # of cases per capita. It seems to be the pubs and restaurants (bars and nightclubs are still closed), private house parties, and gyms.

I am not condoning it, but it makes sense why it's this age group. This group of people are at a relatively low risk of dying, they are most likely to be less likely settled with their own family at home. It would get lonely for them. I am so thankful that my kids are still young enough that they we can still do things as a family almost nightly, and I can force them to stay home. For the 20 year old, living alone, it is tough to ask them to isolate. That being said, they are being stupid in these mass gatherings.
 
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What I would like to know is how sick are these young people getting, on average. I know we see a few examples of very sick and sometimes even dead, but what is the average condition? In the graph on the link J4B posted it shows the rise in infections, but it also shows hospitalizations very low and deaths going sideways. Now deaths will lag infections so perhaps that curve will turn up as well. It will be interesting to see.

The reason I query this is I have a sneaky suspicion that young people not only don't get very sick from a covid 19 infection, but may also not be very contagious, as well. If you think about it, a person's health condition will most likely be a result of the viral load that is in their bodies, at the time. I also would imagine that spreading the virus is probably a result of shedding some percentage of that viral load as they breathe, cough, etc. If the young have an immune system that prevents the infection from creating a large enough viral load to make them very sick, would it also hold true they would be shedding a much lower number of viruses, since shedding a percentage of a much smaller viral load must result in a lower shed of virus. Remember, it takes a minimum amount of virus to cause an infection. They call this the infective rate. That amount would vary from person to person but there is a minimum. 2 or 3 viruses in your body will not allow them to grow into more. They require a bigger army then that, upon initial infection, to get that ball rolling.

So with all that said, I suspect that these young people are not getting very sick and are probably not the biggest distributors of the virus in our society. Just a theory of course. When you add to it, the fact that the young would have had the toughest issues with this pandemic (apart from the dying), I tend to give them a little more slack on this one.

All that said, I suspect this will get out of hand and there are a lot of 40 and 50 year olds that like to go to parties with 20 and 30 year olds, and it would be those people (40 and 50 year olds) where I believe our pandemic problems really do exist. Just my opinion, of course.
 

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Lots of NPCs lined up for ice cream. They think they're smart because you can't eat ice cream with a mask, right? It's business as usual even though we have a strict travel ban, mandatory masks, and fines in place here
I know the original meaning of NPC, and I've noticed the rise of its use to describe people in the last few years. I am frankly kind of puzzled as to what it means. People without agency?

I got ice cream while camping in Algonquin a few weeks ago. Masks were mandatory in line (outside) and in the shop. Move away from the store when you're actually eating...
 

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Well it could be much worse.

I don't think enough media attention is being given to WHY are people ignoring distancing. Suggesting more enforcement and fines does not address that question. It also doesn't help those doing it as would explaining to them WHY they are feeling the way they do and as a result, they are doing what they are doing.

People act based on emotion even in the face of contrary facts. Continuing to tell them the facts won't change that, you have to speak to their emotions. As the saying goes, 'when emotion comes in the door, logic goes out the window.' That is what we are seeing when 200 people gather for a house party in Mississauga.

Instead of continuing to say over and over again, 'this is crazy, these people don't get it', we need to be saying, 'Why are they doing this when the facts are clear' and the answer to that is psychological.

That is what needs to be addressed for these people. They aren't all idiots, they are perfectly capable of 'getting it' but they have to come to terms with it psychologically and hard facts do not address that.
 

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Latest iOS update added a new privacy setting to override COVID19 Exposure Logging

I got the apps COVID Alert and SafeTrace. Not sure which ones are best but only COVID Alert seems to show up as active in the iOS privacy settings

Long overdue imo and I don't believe it violates my privacy as long as Apple approves/tests the app
 

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I know the original meaning of NPC, and I've noticed the rise of its use to describe people in the last few years. I am frankly kind of puzzled as to what it means. People without agency?

I got ice cream while camping in Algonquin a few weeks ago. Masks were mandatory in line (outside) and in the shop. Move away from the store when you're actually eating...

It's a way of saying people are acting like robots with no mind of their own as do all the NPC characters in a video game. Non-Player Characters is the video game term. As opposed to characters whose actions are controlled by the individual game player.

When used as m3s used it, it is a derogatory term akin to 'sheep'.
 

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I don't much care about the excuses people are making to not wear masks.

My wife wears a mask all day working at a retirement home, as do health workers in nursing homes, hospital emergency rooms and ICU units.

Too bad if people don't like to wear a mask. Life isn't all about "their" rights.
 

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It's tough when these young people have relatively no risk to tell them to lock down during their prime summer years.
If they could maintain small groups and limit large gatherings would be ideal but I remember being young, dumb and single would not have listened.
 

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The problem is lack of social responsibility. Cultures which take social responsibility seriously have few covid case outbreaks whether there are lock downs or no lock downs. Japan and Sweden for example vs the UK and the USA. Our young people can still have a 'good time' in small groups among those they know well (for contact tracing if necessary) and to minimize 2nd and 3rd generation spreads and rate of spread. There is no need for the large 20+ people gatherings at any age.

BC tightened the rules on all indoor* spaces after the Kelowna area outbreak of complete social irresponsibility over the Canada Day weekend and municipalities have responded puting bylaw officers out on patrol, mostly boardwalks and beaches to educate and persuade break up of large gatherings. In the Okanagan, it appears the tightening is having some affect due to societal pressures calling out those that do not comply. We will have to see within the next week whether the long August weekend has created another surge or not. It is pretty clear most people understand what the consequences of the Canada Day weekend did locally, which included temporary 1-3 day shut downs of popular places as 2nd and 3rd generation covid cases had to be dealt with, and self-isolation of upwards of 1500 people for two weeks. Nothing gets the attention of a 25 year old more than having participated irrresponsibly at a party and then being contact traced and having to self-isolate for 2 weeks thereafter in the height of summer.

The point is: Young people can still have a good time and comply with common sense constraints. It is not very difficult.

* Limitations on people per sq ft, including hotel rooms, pool side, houseboats, bars and restaurants. Business owners have the obligation to enforce, evict, cancel reservations,etc. to ensure compliance and to enlist the assistance of bylaw and police where necessary. No ordering drinks from stand up bars and no nightclubs. IOW, no walking around mingling.
 
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