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Without reading the whole thread, so it was probably mentioned but I reiterate...

The vast majority of people don't realize, or blissfully ignore, what's involved with a multi-tenant setup. Everything from zoning, whether it's even permitted in your area at all, licensing requirements - then there is all the building code and fire code requirements (especially a problem with basements) such as multiple exits directly to outside, windows for each room - then things like insurance and liability involved, to name a few... It's a real headache that most wouldn't do legally.
 

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You can do this in Toronto legally and safely if its a boarding house, assisted living care home or if you can get both or more people to sign the rental agreement for that unit for a "licensed" rooming house. With the housing shortage the local code enforcement including fire will bend (but not break) the rules to make sure people stay out of shelters, off the street or in undeclared multidwellings. Just be upfront and have basic but esstential things like smoke detectors in each room, fire rated doors on each unit, intercontected alarms in common, storage and service areas. Ample fire extinguishers and emergency lights, carbon monoxide detectors and door closers on all exterior and corridor doors.

The building and fire will also demand you have an on site super who they can contact regarding any issues.

LEOs will have much higher trust if you install a good security camera system and give them access to it over the internet. So they wont come down as hard on you when they have to answer noise complaints or a drunken student whos learning his limits

Some organizations will even. Sponsor you, help you run it And arrange city or provincial rent subsidies for tenants rent in the case of assisted care or boarding houses for elederly or low income folks. Habit for humanity is the biggest one. Local and indigenous organizations and government social workers do it for rooming houses.

For a boarding house you need cleaning and cooks

For a assisted care ditto but also an on site nurse

For a rooming house just a super but you should also hire a cleaner as most people dont clean up after themselves

Try to do things as by the book as you can even of you go unlicensed because it will save you alot of headaches in the long run.

Also dont just chase money. Dont cram as many people in a room as you can. Your tenants will resent you and the wear and tear on the property is awful.
 

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It is a business model. But it is not a passive business. It is pure fantasy to think you can carefully handpick problem-free tenants eager to pack themselves four to a room and expect to just collect rent cheques every month and otherwise ignore it. I think an alien might believe that, but anyone who has lived on earth among humans knows otherwise.
 

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Discussion Starter · #104 ·
I'm actually more disturbed now that it sounds like this isn't just a joke, and you might be serious.

I think what you're describing is immoral and illegal. You should not do this.

It doesn't matter if others are doing it and getting away with it. They won't get away with it forever, and if you have a neighbour like me, I would actively work on ruining your operation. If it was me ... I would tip off the city inspectors and police. I would find out who your bank and insurers are, and tip them off.

If a sense of morality isn't enough to prevent you from doing something this obscene, then maybe you should consider law enforcement and members of the public who will assist them, against you.
Wow....some of you have really lived some sheltered lives and haven't traveled much. The living conditions (clean, non-smoking, well ventilated) would be better than probably 1/4 of the rest of the world. So better than what 1.5 billion people experience day to day. Before I mentioned about hot plates bolted to walls. I didn't write that well. I meant you could increase cooking facilities by doing that instead of getting another stove. And it wouldn't be in a bedroom. It would be in the kitchen with the typical kitchen exhaust fan. Look, when the prospective renter came to see the place they'd be told how many people are living there so they'd know that cooking time would be limited. If it was important for them to spend a lot of time in food prep they simply wouldn't move in. Most of these people are working 2 jobs and are so tired at the end of the day they just grab a snack and go to bed. Many, as I mentioned before, work in places that have free food for their employees.

You've got to understand the demand for a $400 living space in a place like Vancouver is so high people WILL sacrifice to get it.

Well here's the news: People ARE doing this and doing it peacefully and they are saving some people are lot of rental costs. Because how else are you going to live close to your work in Vancouver or Toronto and not pay more than $700 or so without sharing your sleeping space? Let me know please. Rent is money down the drain. We all know this. But some people are determined to minimize it until they save enough for a down payment for their first house. This way they move into that house a whole lot sooner.

Its ironic that so many Canadians are resentful of the wealth of so many immigrants, oblivious to the sacrifices they made to get there over the years, simply because they don't talk to them even if they work around them. They could learn so much. An interesting thing about the mind: We adapt to the world. You cushy people, used to your granite countertops and stainless steel appliances and heated underground parking and instant on air conditioning if the temperature dares to advance 2 degrees above our hallowed room temperature, don't realize that if you remove any of those things you'd soon adapt and your mindset would be the same as it is now. Its the ability to experiment with yourself that sets the real leaders apart from the crowd. Because you just never know how something new will work unless you dive in (after taking reasonable precautions of course - like asking experienced people in the field their opinions).
 

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Discussion Starter · #106 ·
^ Because someone (the OP who opened this obscene thread) has been brainwashed and now trying to brainwash others here in order to validate the legality of what he/she wants to attempt.

I hope when the OP's friends tells that jumping off a cliff will give you a longlife, he/she will do just that instead of coming over to this forum trying to convince others to follow. EOM.
I have said repeatedly that this can only work if its legal and respects zoning laws.
 

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Discussion Starter · #107 · (Edited)
You can do this in Toronto legally and safely if its a boarding house, assisted living care home or if you can get both or more people to sign the rental agreement for that unit for a "licensed" rooming house. With the housing shortage the local code enforcement including fire will bend (but not break) the rules to make sure people stay out of shelters, off the street or in undeclared multidwellings. Just be upfront and have basic but esstential things like smoke detectors in each room, fire rated doors on each unit, intercontected alarms in common, storage and service areas. Ample fire extinguishers and emergency lights, carbon monoxide detectors and door closers on all exterior and corridor doors.

The building and fire will also demand you have an on site super who they can contact regarding any issues.

LEOs will have much higher trust if you install a good security camera system and give them access to it over the internet. So they wont come down as hard on you when they have to answer noise complaints or a drunken student whos learning his limits

Some organizations will even. Sponsor you, help you run it And arrange city or provincial rent subsidies for tenants rent in the case of assisted care or boarding houses for elederly or low income folks. Habit for humanity is the biggest one. Local and indigenous organizations and government social workers do it for rooming houses.

For a boarding house you need cleaning and cooks

For a assisted care ditto but also an on site nurse

For a rooming house just a super but you should also hire a cleaner as most people dont clean up after themselves

Try to do things as by the book as you can even of you go unlicensed because it will save you alot of headaches in the long run.

Also dont just chase money. Dont cram as many people in a room as you can. Your tenants will resent you and the wear and tear on the property is awful.
I keep on repeating myself: This is not a rooming house. Its shared accommodation. The two are vastly different. The latter having a lot more flexibility. Its the only way this can work.

But all your recommendations for fire prevention are valid and not insurmountable, especially if you're renovating your own place anyways. I've always focused on soundproofing but a lot of soundproofing can also inhibit the spread of fire if chosen well. Though good fireproofing is always getting to the fire extinguisher fast and using it effectively. And the only way that can be done in a smokey environment is to use goggles for the eyes and a respirator for breathing. I've used my half face El Cheapo respirator with a P100 filter in lightly smokey places and detected no smoke but I have no idea how it would perform in heavy smoke. You'd need the right filter. Some people would think that someone renting there wouldn't bother but if they have something irreplaceable or a pet they can't find they would really want to quench that fire.

"Don't just chase money". True, especially if its a long term investment. But I guess what I'm trying to point out is many of us simply can't get into the game without some very out of the box thinking and doing things few others would contemplate. Hey, if it was straight forward and easy everyone would do it. Also everything I'm saying in this thread is hinged on the owner/manager if renting the house from someone else, living there. This is simply not what most real estate investors do. They buy property because they have money they don't want to put in the stock market or are diversifying. They aren't buying real estate because they like buying and managing real estate. The stark reality is that's a terrible reason to invest. We should be investing in things that interest us. A hands off owner is usually a lousy overseer of the investment simply because the disconnect precludes them to be really in the know about everything there. I'm primarily hoping to inspire young people with no family that have a high degree of adaptability. Even with a family it can work if you segregate yourself, say on a separate floor from everyone else. This cuts down on your revenue of course but by this time you should be doing this well and can afford it.

Once you've been doing this for a few years you could hopefully set up one of the renters as a super and buy/move into another place and do it again. As your money gets better you'd live on your own but you really need good eyes for this to work. And definitely not geographically distant!
 

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You can do this in Toronto legally and safely if its a boarding house, assisted living care home or if you can get both or more people to sign the rental agreement for that unit for a "licensed" rooming house. With the housing shortage the local code enforcement including fire will bend (but not break) the rules to make sure people stay out of shelters, off the street or in undeclared multidwellings. Just be upfront and have basic but esstential things like smoke detectors in each room, fire rated doors on each unit, intercontected alarms in common, storage and service areas. Ample fire extinguishers and emergency lights, carbon monoxide detectors and door closers on all exterior and corridor doors.

The building and fire will also demand you have an on site super who they can contact regarding any issues.

LEOs will have much higher trust if you install a good security camera system and give them access to it over the internet. So they wont come down as hard on you when they have to answer noise complaints or a drunken student whos learning his limits

Some organizations will even. Sponsor you, help you run it And arrange city or provincial rent subsidies for tenants rent in the case of assisted care or boarding houses for elederly or low income folks. Habit for humanity is the biggest one. Local and indigenous organizations and government social workers do it for rooming houses.

For a boarding house you need cleaning and cooks

For a assisted care ditto but also an on site nurse

For a rooming house just a super but you should also hire a cleaner as most people dont clean up after themselves

Try to do things as by the book as you can even of you go unlicensed because it will save you alot of headaches in the long run.

Also dont just chase money. Dont cram as many people in a room as you can. Your tenants will resent you and the wear and tear on the property is awful.
... only problem is the "landlords" of these units, particularly "rooming houses" are nothing short of "slumlords".
 

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I have said repeatedly that this can only work if its legal and respects zoning laws.
... well, why don't you contact a lawyer in your city and find out if it's "legal" on what you're planning to do "honestly". Your respect for zoning laws is like respecting my toes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #110 ·
... only problem is the "landlords" of these units, particularly "rooming houses" are nothing short of "slumlords".
True. But you know what? If they lived there it would be a lot better kept up because they couldn't stand living there in filth or disarray. Most investors are quite organized and would not like living in a mess. As they say, always be close to your investment.
 

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True. But you know what? If they lived there it would be a lot better kept up because they couldn't stand living there in filth or disarray. Most investors are quite organized and would not like living in a mess. As they say, always be close to your investment.
... and you know what? Most landlords (99%) wouldn't want to live in their rentals or even a block away from his/her tenants. It has to be far far far away. All he/she, slumlord is concerned is with the "rent pay-up", everything else (complaints, broken/plugged toilet, have your pick to fix, etc.) can wait. Even the bylaw officers or orders to comply.
 

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Something that parallels this discussion that I've noticed happening in fairly nice established neighborhoods, as a result (I suppose) of the high price of real estate, is the purchase of a home that is then converted to a two unit rental. The basement is renovated, along with the upper floor to accommodate two units. Historically, a family would buy this home, and live there, and take care of it with pride of ownership.

This situation, from observation in my own neighborhood, results in an excess of vehicles and a disregard for the appearance of the home. I only need to drive down any street in my neighborhood and see a bunch of vehicles and a lawn that is overgrown and junk laying around to know what's going on in that house.

Anyone else observe this situation?

ltr
 

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^ Yes. And add multiple bicycle parking plus multiple garbage + recycling bins tell you that there're waaay waay waaay more than 2 families dwelling in there.
 

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I see similar things happening where I live. Typically, a South Asian family will buy a 3-bedroom house, renovate the basement, and sometimes the garage as well, to create 2-3 additional bedrooms, so now it's a 5-6 bedroom house with 6-10 people living there. This is a typical 2000 sqft house with not a lot of parking, so usually vehicles spill out onto both sides of the street.
 

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Those are considered rooming houses and subject to the appropriate laws.

It all works until there is a fire or the police are called about something. Then the insurance refuses to pay and law enforcement lay charges.
 

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Discussion Starter · #116 ·
... and you know what? Most landlords (99%) wouldn't want to live in their rentals or even a block away from his/her tenants. It has to be far far far away. All he/she, slumlord is concerned is with the "rent pay-up", everything else (complaints, broken/plugged toilet, have your pick to fix, etc.) can wait. Even the bylaw officers or orders to comply.
Yeah I know most landlords are very divorced from their properties. Its too bad. They really are in the wrong business. I suppose the hope for profits blurs their judgement when buying.
 

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I keep on repeating myself: This is not a rooming house. Its shared accommodation. The two are vastly different. The latter having a lot more flexibility. Its the only way this can work.

But all your recommendations for fire prevention are valid and not insurmountable, especially if you're renovating your own place anyways. I've always focused on soundproofing but a lot of soundproofing can also inhibit the spread of fire if chosen well. Though good fireproofing is always getting to the fire extinguisher fast and using it effectively. And the only way that can be done in a smokey environment is to use goggles for the eyes and a respirator for breathing. I've used my half face El Cheapo respirator with a P100 filter in lightly smokey places and detected no smoke but I have no idea how it would perform in heavy smoke. You'd need the right filter. Some people would think that someone renting there wouldn't bother but if they have something irreplaceable or a pet they can't find they would really want to quench that fire.

"Don't just chase money". True, especially if its a long term investment. But I guess what I'm trying to point out is many of us simply can't get into the game without some very out of the box thinking and doing things few others would contemplate. Hey, if it was straight forward and easy everyone would do it. Also everything I'm saying in this thread is hinged on the owner/manager if renting the house from someone else, living there. This is simply not what most real estate investors do. They buy property because they have money they don't want to put in the stock market or are diversifying. They aren't buying real estate because they like buying and managing real estate. The stark reality is that's a terrible reason to invest. We should be investing in things that interest us. A hands off owner is usually a lousy overseer of the investment simply because the disconnect precludes them to be really in the know about everything there. I'm primarily hoping to inspire young people with no family that have a high degree of adaptability. Even with a family it can work if you segregate yourself, say on a separate floor from everyone else. This cuts down on your revenue of course but by this time you should be doing this well and can afford it.

Once you've been doing this for a few years you could hopefully set up one of the renters as a super and buy/move into another place and do it again. As your money gets better you'd live on your own but you really need good eyes for this to work. And definitely. not geographically distant!
Honestly youre just talking about creating a rooming house. You cant paint an elephant pink and call it a flamingo. Please look up insurance guidelines. More than 3 unrelated people occupying a unit is considered a rooming house.

Why waste money on complicated and unrequired equipment like respirators. Fire inspectors will laugh that off and tell you to do what I said above then have it inspected by an independent fire systems technician and provide a full report. You should also have a fire safety plan, monthly fsmoke detector teat records in a fire box by the front entrance in case the fire department has to ever deal with a call.

Most tenants will not even use a fire extinguisher much less a respirator, they just leave the property and call 911. A cat or dog wont make most people stay or reenter burning building. We read feel good stories in the news but its not the norm.

Soundproofing does not inhibit fires, It just something else to burn. Even drywall will burn not just by flame but by just heat from a smoldering fire.

Being hands a on owner is a must for theae types of rentals . no decent property management will take them on especially if unlicensed.
 

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... only problem is the "landlords" of these units, particularly "rooming houses" are nothing short of "slumlords".
Most in Toronto are decent. The bad ones are the ones we hear about not the ones that are run well. Ontario public housing and apartment buildings run by slumlords can be alot worse.
 
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