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Discussion Starter #21
... your assumption is that everyone else other than yourself would act irresponsibly.

Did it not occur to you that "your act holy of 'personal' responsibility' of reporting "directly to CBSA or the police dep't" would mean a good possibility that no one else would know about it other than yourself, CBSA, or the police dep't? Do you think the CBSA/police dep't is going to REPORT this to the media to inform everyone else in Canada that this is happening?

Also I made the prediction that you wouldn't because you've been confining yourself in your Fort Knox since the beginning of the pandemic. So what're the chances of you snitching on your neighbours' open BBQ parties say let alone being anywhere near Banff? Get real.

... only if she was there or in that situation. She might have 2nd thoughts even then.
Beaver101, you really aren't worth bothering to respond to. I make no assumptions but you seem to make a great many. The only person I believe would act irresponsibly based on this thread, is YOU.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
I think Americans are not part of 'us'. They don't give Canadians any special consideration. I have no problem fining and booting them out of the country if they violate the conditions of entry to Canada.
You may be right andrewf but perhaps are giving too much credit to people like this thread is about. Rather than not giving Canadians any special consideration, I don't think these kind of people give anyone, anywhere any consideration.

It's curious that the couple in the RV in Golden, apparently according to the RV manager, did not UNDERSTAND why they were being asked to move from the centre of the RV park to another site on the edge of the RV park and away from any other RVs. In other words, why they had to be made to pack up and move which I suspect they saw as an annoying inconvenience. That to me would indicate no connection in their minds between, 'we could be putting others at risk' and 'we are being inconvenienced.' They can't see beyond the 'ME'.
 

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The whole social "circle" idea in Ontario is an ill conceived plan, and the medical experts didn't advise it.

You can be in your social circle, but can't have anyone that is in another social circle.....loses all credibility for couples.

If your spouse is a member of your families social circle, they can't belong to their own families social circle ?

Our neighbor went up to their trailer in a resort park by the lake. They just opened the park and she said everyone is texting and saying they will meet there.

Time to get out the tropical shirt........it's party time. 🍺🍔








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... only if she was there or in that situation. She might have 2nd thoughts even then.
I have no doubt I would call RCMP in Banff about illegal Americans taking advantage of a loop hole. No second thoughts. I am actually not sure why you would think I would have second thoughts. Its not very difficult for me to call. However, if the RCMP asked me to detain them or something else, I would probably hesitate and not do it. That's definitely not my job. I have believed that we should have closed down the borders much earlier so would have no problems calling. I am also annoyed that I haven't gone to the mountains or my cabin in BC out of respect for those communities even though I have more of a right to go there than someone lying to get there. So I would have no problems calling. I would also post on social media if I knew how. But I don't use social media very much.

However, please do get me wrong and assumer that because I would call about some illegal americans that our in my 'backyard' that I would call the police on a neighbor. It has driven me absolutely nuts at the disregard that others have for COVID. I have seen so many things that I consider wrong. However, I wouldn't call the police. If they are near me, I may say something, usually politely.

It's not always black and white, but I think Americans coming in here illegal is just wrong.
 

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The whole social "circle" idea in Ontario is an ill conceived plan, and the medical experts didn't advise it.

You can be in your social circle, but can't have anyone that is in another social circle.....loses all credibility for couples.

If your spouse is a member of your families social circle, they can't belong to their own families social circle ?
They are calling them 'cohorts' in our province. The idea is that people can start expanding their social cohorts, but try to keep the same group. It's easier for tracing, and is in between going out with everyone or not socializing at all. Each group that you reduce, reduces the risk exponentially.

For our schools, there are looking into cohort classes. Kids stay with their own class all the time including options. Before you would go to class with most of your homeroom (30 ish kids) but then share options across the whole grade ( up 60 kids) in three different options. In the second scenario, one kid could infect the grade (almost 200 kids) within 2 days. Here's you would be within your class the whole time. They are doing this for my spouses and kids sports too. Limited number of teams you play, no cross playing with other leagues, people are only allowed to play in one league (my spouse played 3 leagues before, and my kids in 2 each).

It works for social circles too. Before we do any socializing with people, we ask what contact they have had over the last two weeks for public or private gatherings. We decide if we will do something based on that answer. We know someone who has a really large family with a lot of kids and they go to many other kids houses, so we haven't gotten together with them because it's too big of a cohort.
 

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I wonder if they stayed at a hotel/motel. The reception must have checked some form of ID and maybe gotten the license plate number for parking. My understanding is that they work relatively closely with the Police to catch fugitives, etc. They could have raised the issue with them. It is possible the travelers had Canadian passports, which would complicate things a bit. Or maybe the hotel was desperate to fill their rooms.

I agree with the above sentiments about enforcing the laws, particularly regarding health issues. If a Canadian had lied to the US border agents, they could have been banned from entering the US for years and harshly interrogated as if they were a serial killer; that's if they were not tased or shot on the spot.
 

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Beaver101, you really aren't worth bothering to respond to. I make no assumptions but you seem to make a great many. The only person I believe would act irresponsibly based on this thread, is YOU.
... then why do you bothered to respond? Sure you don't make any assumptions as you simply make ACCUSATIONS and there you go again accusing me of acting irresponsibly when you don't even know me. Plus you can't comprehend what you read either. Just stick to the keyboard and keep up up making your condescending accusations in your little dreamworld.

To sum it up politely on your "act of personal responsibility": YOU'RE FULL OF IT. Like this one: :poop:
 

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I have no doubt I would call RCMP in Banff about illegal Americans taking advantage of a loop hole. No second thoughts. I am actually not sure why you would think I would have second thoughts. Its not very difficult for me to call. However, if the RCMP asked me to detain them or something else, I would probably hesitate and not do it. That's definitely not my job. I have believed that we should have closed down the borders much earlier so would have no problems calling. I am also annoyed that I haven't gone to the mountains or my cabin in BC out of respect for those communities even though I have more of a right to go there than someone lying to get there. So I would have no problems calling. I would also post on social media if I knew how. But I don't use social media very much.

However, please do get me wrong and assumer that because I would call about some illegal americans that our in my 'backyard' that I would call the police on a neighbor. It has driven me absolutely nuts at the disregard that others have for COVID. I have seen so many things that I consider wrong. However, I wouldn't call the police. If they are near me, I may say something, usually politely.

It's not always black and white, but I think Americans coming in here illegal is just wrong.
... you may make a simple call but there's a chance there is more to it ... ie. a follow up.

A simple question or 2 for you - have you ever called the RCMP? What about your local police dep't? What was that you reported on and what was the response? Was anything done subsequently? I'm curious.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Often when watching the news about some incident somewhere my wife will say to me something like, 'people live in different worlds. We didn't grow up in a neighbourhood with drive-by shootings or metal detectors in schools to detect guns and knives. We didn't grow up being afraid of or hating the police. We didn't grow up being taught, keep your head down and your mouth shut.'

We all live in different worlds in many ways and clearly Beaver101 has not grown up in a world I would want to have grown up in.
 

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... you may make a simple call but there's a chance there is more to it ... ie. a follow up.

A simple question or 2 for you - have you ever called the RCMP? What about your local police dep't? What was that you reported on and what was the response? Was anything done subsequently? I'm curious.
Yes, I have to both. Only once to the RCMP, super long story. It involved the potential for things to get out of hand seriously. Essentially they came out and check in on everyone during their rounds. It took almost two hours as were an hour out from the next town. It wasn't an emergency, so the response was appropriate. Don't know if they would have gotten there sooner if it was an emergency.

Have I called the local police? Numerous times, let me do the most memorable ones, there more.
  • My parents house was invaded at gunpoint when I was living at home. After I fought off the invader, and my mom was pulled out of the house. I called 911 for help, managed to grabbed the keys to the get away car from the second gunman while trying not being able to find my mom. Ran back in the house to put on pants. When I came out, there was a full blown SWAT team surrounding the whole area. In the time had run to put on pants (I was fast) they had set up a SWAT, apprehended the first and second gunman, and found my mom. It was recorded that all that happened in under 7 minutes from when I first dialed 911. It felt longer, but that was the official record in court.
  • Sold our vehicle as is, provide a list of things that needed fixing and about the pricing (was very honest), told the guy that he should bring his own mechanic to check it so it was comfortable. He didn't want to. Two months later, he showed up at our door threatening us. He wanted us to pay for half of his repairs because Canadian Tire did a whole bunch of work not needed and charged a lot. He started pounding on our windows and blocked our driveway by sitting in his car. I snuck my young kids out of the back, ran to the neighbors and called the police. They came within 15 minutes, but the guy was gone. The police went to the guys house and told them to never come back again or he would be arrested. They cops came back when it the neighborhood the next day told us what they did.
  • Driving to work there was a person talking into her phone the WHOLE time. She wasn't paying attention to the road. Clipped a few pillons on the way, still did stop. She caused quite a few stirred. I managed to pull behind, get a pic while at a light of her plate and her. Call the non-emergency line. They said in this case, I should call the 911 because it was in progress. I followed the person (because I could), and some downtown police pulled her over, did not need me any more. Didn't ask for anything and I continued to the office.
  • I was at a strip mall. I saw someone scrap/back in to into a very very expensive vehicle while leaving the parking spot and just take off. I was going to take the spot, and tried to honk and stop them, they left. So I followed them, had my kids take a picture of the car, vehicle and plates, while I called. I followed him while on with 911 (handsfree). Then asked for the license plate of the vehicle hit, didn't have it, so drove back and gave them the license plate. They said that was all. I lost my parking spot, and went to do my errands in the strip mall. About 15 minutes in, I saw the owner on the phone looking at her truck. I came out a spoke with her, she said that the police called her while she was in the store told her there was a hit and run. They had contacted the other person already and he was coming back. I didn't even need to give all the pictures we took.
  • I back on to a wooded space. Teenagers have bush parties all the time. If it's hot out, I have to keep the windows open at night and can hear all the partying and drinking. It's annoying but I just ignore them normally. However, there have been times where I thought someone's safety has been in question (the yelling and starting of the fight) where I have called. I have heard the police turn on the sirens just down the hill which usually gets the teenagers to disperse.
There have been times that I have called because of some dangerous such as flying debris, I suspected drunk driving, and had to leave. They just taken the information, and thanked me. A couple of times they called back and for more information. I general don't call for any thing that just annoys me. I have no problems calling if it think there is a high probably of injury/harm, damage, or longer impacts, or high probability to catching someone. I don't call for trivial things, usually when I assess that my not calling could cause a lot more harm.

So, I am can quite confidentially say, I have no problems calling the police when I think is needed. There may not always be a response, but if I don't call, there won't be one at all. I have never been asked to do something more afterwards other than answer a few more questions which I am fine.
 

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...

We all live in different worlds in many ways and clearly Beaver101 has not grown up in a world I would want to have grown up in.
The world as it is now and has been for some time is a rather crappy place in which to grow up. Not at all the world I once knew.

I am old enough to recall the golden age of travel.

The following comment from another thread resonates with this kid:

It is summertime. I want to be in the north channel and Manitoulin Island. I was not given the ability to see the value of Europe and other world travel as the rest of you have.
It seems, from reading on cmf, that a great many people now want to retire at age 25 or sooner and go travel for 50 years. They are welcome to it. It's not much fun anymore. Now, with C-19, international travel is probably pretty much a dead letter for years and years. Maybe permanent. It was not nice anyway.

When I refer to the golden age of travel, I can recall a time - believe it or not - when one could show up at any airport, buy a ticket and fly. No need to show ID, no one cared what was in your 'flight bag' (remember those?). No questions or inspections of any sort. And nothing bad ever happened.

My dad used to fly on TCA (Trans Canada Airlines - later Air Canada) from what was called Malton Airport (later Toronto International) for business. My mum would drive him out there and us kids would tag along. We could board the plane with him to see him off, being asked to leave only when the plane was about to depart. Can you imagine that today?

I was about age 8 when I flew alone for the first time on TCA. I am sure my parents did not (as I have done since) pay a $110 each way 'unaccompanied minor fee'. Airline personnel were simply helpful to a little kid, including an invitation up to the cockpit (probably a non-pc term these days) for a look around. Can you imagine that today? (Am I cultivating a leitmotif?)

Now (well, pre C-19 anyway), a trip to the airport is a horror show. We are told to get there hours ahead, because of all the crap to be endured. Everyone and every item is a suspect. Take off your belt; take off your shoes. Don't smile. Don't make an attempt at levity or humour. It's a solemn occasion.

It was actually not all that long ago when driving either way across the Canada/US border was a cakewalk. Usually only 2 questions: (i) Citizenship? (ii) Anything to declare? For many years I never saw anyone actually asked to show any kind of ID or proof of citizenship. Now, everyone is a suspected terrorist, a word unknown in the golden age. Similarly, what the hell was a "mass shooting"? Unheard of.

What with C-19, the world has forever become an even more hostile place. C-19 is out to get us. Everyone is a suspected carrier of the seeds of destruction. Keep your damn distance or risk punishment. Buy a few groceries and approach a cashier behind a wall of plexiglass. Time to pay means maybe a card reader wiped down with alcohol and handed to you while the cashier takes a few quick steps back from you like you are some kind of leper, social pariah or pos. No, do not bring your own bag or container. Who knows where THAT might have been? Nice.
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And talk of such things as restaurants re-opening. All staff masked and hiding behind plexiglass to avoid any possible contact with their disgusting, diseased clientele. Really conducive to a fine dining experience. I expect never to eat in a restaurant again.

The world of 2020 is not a world for anyone to grow up in. But there it is. It's been on a downhill slide for decades, but C-19 has hastened it's demise as fit for humans. I pity anyone born today.
 

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Yes, I have to both. Only once to the RCMP, super long story. It involved the potential for things to get out of hand seriously. Essentially they came out and check in on everyone during their rounds. It took almost two hours as were an hour out from the next town. It wasn't an emergency, so the response was appropriate. Don't know if they would have gotten there sooner if it was an emergency.

Have I called the local police? Numerous times, let me do the most memorable ones, there more.
  • My parents house was invaded at gunpoint when I was living at home. After I fought off the invader, and my mom was pulled out of the house. I called 911 for help, managed to grabbed the keys to the get away car from the second gunman while trying not being able to find my mom. Ran back in the house to put on pants. When I came out, there was a full blown SWAT team surrounding the whole area. In the time had run to put on pants (I was fast) they had set up a SWAT, apprehended the first and second gunman, and found my mom. It was recorded that all that happened in under 7 minutes from when I first dialed 911. It felt longer, but that was the official record in court.
  • Sold our vehicle as is, provide a list of things that needed fixing and about the pricing (was very honest), told the guy that he should bring his own mechanic to check it so it was comfortable. He didn't want to. Two months later, he showed up at our door threatening us. He wanted us to pay for half of his repairs because Canadian Tire did a whole bunch of work not needed and charged a lot. He started pounding on our windows and blocked our driveway by sitting in his car. I snuck my young kids out of the back, ran to the neighbors and called the police. They came within 15 minutes, but the guy was gone. The police went to the guys house and told them to never come back again or he would be arrested. They cops came back when it the neighborhood the next day told us what they did.
  • Driving to work there was a person talking into her phone the WHOLE time. She wasn't paying attention to the road. Clipped a few pillons on the way, still did stop. She caused quite a few stirred. I managed to pull behind, get a pic while at a light of her plate and her. Call the non-emergency line. They said in this case, I should call the 911 because it was in progress. I followed the person (because I could), and some downtown police pulled her over, did not need me any more. Didn't ask for anything and I continued to the office.
  • I was at a strip mall. I saw someone scrap/back in to into a very very expensive vehicle while leaving the parking spot and just take off. I was going to take the spot, and tried to honk and stop them, they left. So I followed them, had my kids take a picture of the car, vehicle and plates, while I called. I followed him while on with 911 (handsfree). Then asked for the license plate of the vehicle hit, didn't have it, so drove back and gave them the license plate. They said that was all. I lost my parking spot, and went to do my errands in the strip mall. About 15 minutes in, I saw the owner on the phone looking at her truck. I came out a spoke with her, she said that the police called her while she was in the store told her there was a hit and run. They had contacted the other person already and he was coming back. I didn't even need to give all the pictures we took.
  • I back on to a wooded space. Teenagers have bush parties all the time. If it's hot out, I have to keep the windows open at night and can hear all the partying and drinking. It's annoying but I just ignore them normally. However, there have been times where I thought someone's safety has been in question (the yelling and starting of the fight) where I have called. I have heard the police turn on the sirens just down the hill which usually gets the teenagers to disperse.
There have been times that I have called because of some dangerous such as flying debris, I suspected drunk driving, and had to leave. They just taken the information, and thanked me. A couple of times they called back and for more information. I general don't call for any thing that just annoys me. I have no problems calling if it think there is a high probably of injury/harm, damage, or longer impacts, or high probability to catching someone. I don't call for trivial things, usually when I assess that my not calling could cause a lot more harm.

So, I am can quite confidentially say, I have no problems calling the police when I think is needed. There may not always be a response, but if I don't call, there won't be one at all. I have never been asked to do something more afterwards other than answer a few more questions which I am fine.
... thanks for your reponse. Seems all your contacts with the enforcement officers/divisions appear to be "urgent" or an emergency. So where're you located out west? I'm moving there for my retirement.
 

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Discussion Starter #33

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The world as it is now and has been for some time is a rather crappy place in which to grow up. Not at all the world I once knew.

I am old enough to recall the golden age of travel.

The following comment from another thread resonates with this kid:



It seems, from reading on cmf, that a great many people now want to retire at age 25 or sooner and go travel for 50 years. They are welcome to it. It's not much fun anymore. Now, with C-19, international travel is probably pretty much a dead letter for years and years. Maybe permanent. It was not nice anyway.

When I refer to the golden age of travel, I can recall a time - believe it or not - when one could show up at any airport, buy a ticket and fly. No need to show ID, no one cared what was in your 'flight bag' (remember those?). No questions or inspections of any sort. And nothing bad ever happened.

My dad used to fly on TCA (Trans Canada Airlines - later Air Canada) from what was called Malton Airport (later Toronto International) for business. My mum would drive him out there and us kids would tag along. We could board the plane with him to see him off, being asked to leave only when the plane was about to depart. Can you imagine that today?

I was about age 8 when I flew alone for the first time on TCA. I am sure my parents did not (as I have done since) pay a $110 each way 'unaccompanied minor fee'. Airline personnel were simply helpful to a little kid, including an invitation up to the cockpit (probably a non-pc term these days) for a look around. Can you imagine that today? (Am I cultivating a leitmotif?)

Now (well, pre C-19 anyway), a trip to the airport is a horror show. We are told to get there hours ahead, because of all the crap to be endured. Everyone and every item is a suspect. Take off your belt; take off your shoes. Don't smile. Don't make an attempt at levity or humour. It's a solemn occasion.

It was actually not all that long ago when driving either way across the Canada/US border was a cakewalk. Usually only 2 questions: (i) Citizenship? (ii) Anything to declare? For many years I never saw anyone actually asked to show any kind of ID or proof of citizenship. Now, everyone is a suspected terrorist, a word unknown in the golden age. Similarly, what the hell was a "mass shooting"? Unheard of.

What with C-19, the world has forever become an even more hostile place. C-19 is out to get us. Everyone is a suspected carrier of the seeds of destruction. Keep your damn distance or risk punishment. Buy a few groceries and approach a cashier behind a wall of plexiglass. Time to pay means maybe a card reader wiped down with alcohol and handed to you while the cashier takes a few quick steps back from you like you are some kind of leper, social pariah or pos. No, do not bring your own bag or container. Who knows where THAT might have been? Nice.
View attachment 20249 View attachment 20250
And talk of such things as restaurants re-opening. All staff masked and hiding behind plexiglass to avoid any possible contact with their disgusting, diseased clientele. Really conducive to a fine dining experience. I expect never to eat in a restaurant again.

The world of 2020 is not a world for anyone to grow up in. But there it is. It's been on a downhill slide for decades, but C-19 has hastened it's demise as fit for humans. I pity anyone born today.
I too can remember the days of kids being taken to the cockpit and given a little pair of wings to pin on their shirt. The days when you could drive into/out of the USA with no ID asked for or anything else. The days before the current near strip search in airports,etc. The joke for us was how people pronounced Toronto. If you grew up there, it is pronounced 'Trono' rather than 'Toe ron to'. If they asked where were you born and you answered 'Trono' they waved you through. If you pronounced it 'Toe ron to' you got pulled over for further questioning.

Unfortunately, it isn't just those born today we have to pity Mukhang pera it is our already born children and grandchildren we have to think of. I have a granddaughter at university in England right now. Or at least she was. Now she is just stuck there waiting to see what happens. It's concerning to me given how poor a job England has done with Covid. This is the world she is going to now have to live in.
 

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... thanks for your reponse. Seems all your contacts with the enforcement officers/divisions appear to be "urgent" or an emergency. So where're you located out west? I'm moving there for my retirement.
I am in Alberta. I plan to stay here from my retirement. Our law enforcement isn’t perfect but I would definitely rather have them than not. I think the key is not to call on trivial matters, that just inundates the system. I generally only call when I think there is a danger, large impact, or really need there help because I don’t have the authority.

Also, I wanted to added that when I called the RCMP, that was n BC.

On a side note, when my spouse was walking across the street (at a crosswalk on a walk signal). He was hit by a taxi turning. My spouse was not too injured other than some bruises, ripped clothing, and some broken items in his briefcase. The driver tried to drive a way because his passenger was in a rush. They argued, and a police officer came over, asked about the commotion. When my spouse explained what happen, the officer replied, ‘sir, this is New York, I see people get hit walking all the time with more injuries, and you dont look hurt, so what’s the big deal.’
My spouse replied, ‘I see the bigger deal is that you don’t see it’s a concern that pedestrians are getting hit in front of you all the time’.
Again, I appreciate being in my city.
 

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The call to disband the police is just insane. It is already happening in some broke American jurisdictions who can't afford their police departments anymore (not because of protests).

I think it is a stupid slogan, as it is highly alienating to the majority of the population. If you are trying to make the point that we should be using police differently, crying 'defund the police' doesn't convey that. What they are supposedly looking for is reform, and maybe a shift in resources to non-police interventions for things like mental health crises. It reminds me of the 'abolish ICE' slogan that is used from time to time. It is crazy to say a country would not have immigration or customs enforcement. Maybe if you were part of a larger customs union like Shengen, but even then you have air travel. Hyperbolic demands loses people who these protesters should be trying to persuade.
 

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The call to disband the police is just insane. It is already happening in some broke American jurisdictions who can't afford their police departments anymore (not because of protests).

I think it is a stupid slogan, as it is highly alienating to the majority of the population. If you are trying to make the point that we should be using police differently, crying 'defund the police' doesn't convey that. What they are supposedly looking for is reform, and maybe a shift in resources to non-police interventions for things like mental health crises. It reminds me of the 'abolish ICE' slogan that is used from time to time. It is crazy to say a country would not have immigration or customs enforcement. Maybe if you were part of a larger customs union like Shengen, but even then you have air travel. Hyperbolic demands loses people who these protesters should be trying to persuade.
... for a start, how about weeding out the 'bad' apples? Those that aren't meant for their occupations based on actual incidents or behaviours. I'm sure there's a record of these problematic officers (employees) and yet force's (management) are keeping a lid on and not doing anything about it. Maybe it's the "brotherhood" thing being practiced.
 

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... for a start, how about weeding out the 'bad' apples? Those that aren't meant for their occupations based on actual incidents or behaviours. I'm sure there's a record of these problematic officers (employees) and yet force's (management) are keeping a lid on and not doing anything about it. Maybe it's the "brotherhood" thing being practiced.
The problem isn't that there a few bad apples, it's actually there are few good apples. The whole union and brotherhood is the issue. Take a look at what happened when 2 officers were suspended for pushing the 75 year old protester: Buffalo officers quit special team after 2 officers are suspended for shoving a 75-year-old protester, 57 officers quit the emergency response team because they felt the 2 officers were doing their job.

Whenever a "good" cop tries to shed light on the issue, they tend to get ostracized.

Isn't that more a 'reform'?
Depends. I'd say you need to raze the structure to the ground and restart from scratch, integrating social workers onto the team. It's obvious that police are doing things that are outside of their expertise (wellness checks, dealing with homelessness and drug addicts). Think of it the whole ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure. Right now, all the resources are spent on the cure (police), with little for the prevention (social services). All that happens is escalating costs as more money is funneled into police budgets with no decrease in (perceived) crime. Defund is probably a bad term for it, as Camden, NJ is used as the model, but the police budget is still significant. Defund police? People looking at Camden as an example. Wrong!
 
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