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My elderly mother, an RBC client, is concerned about the (for her) large amount of cash that she holds in her bank account. She worries that thieves or fraudsters could access it through debit card or ATM transactions and has asked me for advice on how to make it harder to access. We could open an RBC Direct Investing account for her, move the money there, invest it in a HISA and it would be hard for anyone but her to touch it. It would take some work to get this set up for her, though. It seems overkill just to have a place to park cash. Is there something simpler that would accomplish the goal? Is it possible to hold GICs as part of an RBC bank account, perhaps? I know that, theoretically, as long as she does not divulge her passwords/PIN that any loss from her bank account should be reimbursed by RBC, but she would prefer not to test that. Thank you for any advice.
 

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All that she really needs in an everyday account is enough to pay her total monthly living expenses. I am 59 and do that with any extra cash being held in my non-reg trading account at my broker. As far as how to invest it, as you stated "elderly" no need to buy stocks so a HISA is a reasonable place depending on her overall health an total financial picture. Check to see what you daily limit is on her banking card and if it is quite high that can be adjusted down at her local branch if needed.
 

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I am interpreting 'elderly' as someone who is not into online banking, but has moved upscale to ATMs rather than strictly teller transactions. It is a bit much to ask her to manage a DIY brokerage account and to do online transfers if that is the case.

I agree the simplest approach would be to ask RBC to reduce both daily and weekly ATM transactional limits. Bro and I did that for elderly mother some years ago. Perhaps a daily limit of $200 and a weekly limit of $400 or even less if it generally suits her withdrawal habits. With our mother, I think we had a daily limit of $100 and weekly limit of $200. Those kinds of losses can be tolerated in event of a card/PIN combination loss.

Added: We also put a low credit limit on her Visa card which she really never used on her own without either my bro or I present.
 

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My mom has started using online banking recently instead of the telephone banking she used previously, but with some trepidation. I usually do a Chrome remote control session and hold her virtual hand while she pays her bills. A DIY brokerage account would involve me doing the same thing. That’s not an onerous amount of work, but there is a hurdle to get over setting up the brokerage account.

That’s good advice about the ATM and debit limits. That will ease her mind somewhat. Any ideas of ways to segregate the money without moving to a separate investment account? She has both a chequing and savings account. I wonder if RBC can eliminate debit/ATM access to one of them?
 

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You could try asking RBC to place a “hold” on the account for a certain amount, we had this capability at TD when I worked there. It would basically require a branch visit to request that the hold be removed. You could also open a joint account and ask that a “two to sign” message be added. That should stop any sort of electronic money movement.
 

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I would not go the brokerage account. It just isn't worth the effort.

At most, I'd suggest having another bank, e.g. EQ Bank with their 2% HISA but she'd have to set up an online account with them. It can be done entirely online with a micro-deposit approach and EQ Bank has neither an ATM or a debit card option. Then if she needs more money in her RBC account, transfer from EQ Bank as needed.

Clearly you would have to help her through this process, and likely lead her through a few transfers, and she'd have to get comfortable with a Bank she has likely never heard of.... CDIC insurance notwithstanding.
 

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Do any of these banks have a way to do automated, recurring transfers?

One idea is to keep a large cash balance at a different bank than where you keep the daily use / chequing account which is also used with an ATM.

Then, set up automatic transfers so that $X,000 dollars is transferred every month into the daily use account. This way you could keep a minimal balance in this account which interacts with ATMs and cheques.

Does anyone know of an automatic way to do that? I'm actually looking to do this myself.
 

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I would not go the brokerage account. It just isn't worth the effort.

At most, I'd suggest having another bank, e.g. EQ Bank with their 2% HISA but she'd have to set up an online account with them. It can be done entirely online with a micro-deposit approach and EQ Bank has neither an ATM or a debit card option. Then if she needs more money in her RBC account, transfer from EQ Bank as needed.

Clearly you would have to help her through this process, and likely lead her through a few transfers, and she'd have to get comfortable with a Bank she has likely never heard of.... CDIC insurance notwithstanding.
That’s an interesting idea that I had not considered. Both an EQ Bank account and an RBC Direct Investing account would accomplish the same end result – a way to easily move money out of the RBC bank account into another place without ATM or debit card access, where the funds could be stored in an HISA. What do you see as the advantage of the EQ Bank option? That the initial setup would be easier? Am I correct in thinking that the downside would be the need to transfer money back and forth using Interac, whereas an “all RBC” option would make it easier to transfer money?
 

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Why make life complicated for your senior parent?

I wouldn't bother opening an RBCDI account for the sake of segregating a big portion of your mom's $$$. Just open another account ( savings) at RBC and put (transfer) the $$$ there until she/you decide what to do with it (cashable GICs is most liquid however pitiful the interest is). And emphasize to your mom to use her debit card "solely" for banking transactions (i.e. don't use the debit card for shopping!)

She should not have to worry about the safety of online banking as it is "100% guaranteed-secured by the banks" to be safe (if you take all the necessary precautions - ie. safeguard your PIN, etc.) if I understand it correctly.

As for adding you as a joint owner (with right of survivorship) -that would not be a bad idea if she trusts you completely. Only downside is if you have debts collector on your back, that joint account could be in peril.
 

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Do any of these banks have a way to do automated, recurring transfers?

One idea is to keep a large cash balance at a different bank than where you keep the daily use / chequing account which is also used with an ATM.

Then, set up automatic transfers so that $X,000 dollars is transferred every month into the daily use account. This way you could keep a minimal balance in this account which interacts with ATMs and cheques.

Does anyone know of an automatic way to do that? I'm actually looking to do this myself.
From what I recall, TD did offer this called ”PTS“ - pre-authorized transfer service. It allowed automated transfers between TD accounts and also offered the availability to schedule automated transfers FROM other banks TO TD. You may be able to send re-occuring transfers FROM TD to OFI by using TD’s bill payment functionality on Easyweb. i used this a lot before email money transfers to send money to friends.....just not sure if a recurring payment option is available.

this was all before the mainstream use of email transfers. Not sure if it’s still available. If you ask about PTS, you should get a quick yes or no....although, the transfers from OFI to TD was a relatively unknown feature, even by TD staff.

note: former TD employee. Not promoting or supporting any TD service.
 

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Do any of these banks have a way to do automated, recurring transfers?

One idea is to keep a large cash balance at a different bank than where you keep the daily use / chequing account which is also used with an ATM.

Then, set up automatic transfers so that $X,000 dollars is transferred every month into the daily use account. This way you could keep a minimal balance in this account which interacts with ATMs and cheques.

Does anyone know of an automatic way to do that? I'm actually looking to do this myself.
EQ bank allows you to set up a recurring bank to bank transfer.
 

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That’s an interesting idea that I had not considered. Both an EQ Bank account and an RBC Direct Investing account would accomplish the same end result – a way to easily move money out of the RBC bank account into another place without ATM or debit card access, where the funds could be stored in an HISA. What do you see as the advantage of the EQ Bank option? That the initial setup would be easier? Am I correct in thinking that the downside would be the need to transfer money back and forth using Interac, whereas an “all RBC” option would make it easier to transfer money?
The initial set up with EQ Bank is entirely online using the micro-deposit methodology to make the link between RBC and EQ. Transfers thereafter are from EQ Bank itself as a push (movement of funds from EQ to RBC) or a pull (moving funds from RBC to EQ). Up to, I think, $50k at a time. Interac is not used at all. As already stated, recurring transfers can be set up within EQ.

The way it works is, as part of the EQ online application, one provides the banking information of the externally linked RBC account. Once EQ partially approves the application, and EQ does a soft credit check with either of Equifax or Transunion (I forget which) to verify identity, they then send 2 micro-deposits to RBC within a day or two. The applicant then has about 1-2 days to go back into EQ and provide them with the data associated with the 2 micro-deposits to complete the process. This is not something an elderly parent is likely able to do on their own... but once the account is set up and operational, transfers are very easy to do on the EQ website.

From my perspective, going on to the EQ website to transfer funds back to one's primary bank is a simple process, no more difficult than any other online transfer. I have used EQ Bank for over 2 years to keep my HISA money earning something, and I transfer money between it and either of my BMO or Scotia accounts on a regular basis.
 

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EQ bank allows you to set up a recurring bank to bank transfer.
Interesting, thanks.

The issue I am trying to tackle is the perception (to landlords) that I don't have a steady income. I have bursts of unstable consulting income. To get my current housing rental, I showed a bank statement with a large cash balance, plus tax returns, but I really don't like showing those.

Instead, I'm thinking of using regular, automated deposits from my big cash account to a smaller chequing account. After some history builds up, I could show the landlord that I do in fact have "regular income" like clockwork. The additional benefit is the safety and reduced chances of fraud / ATM theft by separating the big account.
 

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James, am I reading this correctly? I'm really surprized! You want to obtain credit - a rental- based on fraudulent documents. Prevent fraud by committing fraud...LOL !
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The initial set up with EQ Bank is entirely online using the micro-deposit methodology to make the link between RBC and EQ. Transfers thereafter are from EQ Bank itself as a push (movement of funds from EQ to RBC) or a pull (moving funds from RBC to EQ). Up to, I think, $50k at a time. Interac is not used at all. As already stated, recurring transfers can be set up within EQ.

The way it works is, as part of the EQ online application, one provides the banking information of the externally linked RBC account. Once EQ partially approves the application, and EQ does a soft credit check with either of Equifax or Transunion (I forget which) to verify identity, they then send 2 micro-deposits to RBC within a day or two. The applicant then has about 1-2 days to go back into EQ and provide them with the data associated with the 2 micro-deposits to complete the process. This is not something an elderly parent is likely able to do on their own... but once the account is set up and operational, transfers are very easy to do on the EQ website.

From my perspective, going on to the EQ website to transfer funds back to one's primary bank is a simple process, no more difficult than any other online transfer. I have used EQ Bank for over 2 years to keep my HISA money earning something, and I transfer money between it and either of my BMO or Scotia accounts on a regular basis.
Thank you for this. I agree that using an cash investment account for the purpose that I described would be like using a cannon to kill a mosquito. And there is a $15K minimum balance required to avoid a quarterly account maintenance fee.

The EQ Bank option is appealing. I’ve been doing a lot of reading about it. It segregates money that my mom doesn’t need away in a separate location that isn’t accessible by ATM and debit card access and is CDIC protected. It’s easy to move money back and forth between EQ and RBC accounts. And 2% interest is good compared to the options elsewhere. It seems like a perfect solution. I may need to do some convincing about a bank that she’s never heard of and that has no physical presence. Thanks again for your input.
 

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You can open another saving account at RBC and have automatic monthly transfers to the existing chequing account .. if more funds are needed you can go to the branch.. For this new account don't request a debit card.
you can access this account online as well.

For Ex: check RBC High Interest eSavings
Only draw back is RBC offers lower interest than Tangering/EQ bank..
 

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You can open another saving account at RBC and have automatic monthly transfers to the existing chequing account .. if more funds are needed you can go to the branch.. For this new account don't request a debit card.
you can access this account online as well.

For Ex: check RBC High Interest eSavings
Only draw back is RBC offers lower interest than Tangering/EQ bank..
Thanks for that input. The question that I have is, can any RBC bank accounts be made invisible to the client's ATM or client card. My guess is "no". I did try to reach out to RBC to ask that question yesterday, but I can't get past the first step of the automated phone system without impersonating my mother by entering her client card number. Does anyone know the answer to that?

Depending on how much money is involved, settting up a separate EQ account would be worth it on interest alone, which is 2% vs 0.05% for the "High Interest" RBC account.
 

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James, am I reading this correctly? I'm really surprized! You want to obtain credit - a rental- based on fraudulent documents. Prevent fraud by committing fraud...LOL !
Nothing fraudulent. For someone who has retirement savings or a large amount of capital, the cashflow produced by the capital is called: investment income. You can produce an arbitrary amount of investment income from capital.

This is the whole point of building up retirement savings and then living off them, right?

So I can either show the landlord the capital balance (which is private and may not even be meaningful to them), or I can show them investment income -- which they DO understand, since most people tend to look at finances from a "cash flow" standpoint.

The landlord might ask: what is the source of this income? The answer: investments & savings. Duh.

Tonight I found that Simplii also supports recurring transfers. One can choose an interval like: every week, two weeks, month, etc.
 

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My elderly mother, an RBC client, is concerned about the (for her) large amount of cash that she holds in her bank account. She worries that thieves or fraudsters could access it through debit card or ATM transactions and has asked me for advice on how to make it harder to access.
Thanks again for posting this, because you got me thinking about something I need to do, and now that I've come up with a solution, I want to share it:

I've decided to use Simplii for all my day to day banking, including bill payments, writing cheques, and ATM (they use CIBC ATMs). This is the account that would be exposed to higher risk of fraud. For example, writing cheques shows people my account number, and there's the possibility of cheque fraud. Cards can be intercepted with "debit card skimming", which does occur sometimes. It happened to a friend of mine, and money was stolen out of her account.

So I'm going to keep a relatively small amount of cash in the Simplii daily use chequing account.

I will keep the bulk of my cash elsewhere, so this way it's segregated. Then I will use Simplii's recurring automatic transfer feature to move $X monthly from the other (big cash) account into this daily use account.

In your mom's scenario, if she has an existing long relationship with RBC it might make sense to keep RBC as the primary (big cash) account. Then open the second account for transaction purposes, something like Simplii or Tangerine Chequing. That way the money mostly stays with RBC where she's probably comfortable with it, and the new account is the thing that's exposed to higher risk... and is totally segregated.
 

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For example, writing cheques shows people my account number, and there's the possibility of cheque fraud. Cards can be intercepted with "debit card skimming", which does occur sometimes. It happened to a friend of mine, and money was stolen out of her account.
I remember writing a cheque about 15 years ago. How often do you actually write a cheque today?
Everyone, including companies want e-transfer today.

"Debit card skimming"?. I don't think that's a thing any more.

What is it you're trying to accomplish here? It sounds like tinfoil hat stuff.

ltr
 
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