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Any memories to share?

The 9/11 attack (carried out mostly by Saudi Arabians and likely supported by the Saudi government) happened early in my adult life, just as I went out into the world. The next 20 years was endless wars in the Middle East, constant fear-mongering about terrorism, and erosion of personal rights and freedoms. Not to mention constant pro-war propaganda.

For all my adult years, I've watched western countries (notably US and UK, but also unfortunately Canada at times under Conservatives) invade and destroy countries they have no business being involved in, seemingly ready to bomb any country, except for the country which actually sent the damned 9/11 terrorists.

I also posted the complete Fahrenheit 9/11 documentary, which you can watch for free here.
 

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@gibor365 was previously with the I.D.F. (Israeli Defense) and has spewed anti-Muslim rhetoric in all the years he's posted here.

Just another far-right war monger. Stephen Harper was another one.
 

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The endless wars are terrible but vaporizing terrorists (jihadists) that martyr lives to do harm is not. Good documentaries of the Afghan saga have been made of operations that were 'just' followed by political quagmires that were not. The West should have simply taught the Taliban a lesson about harboring Al-Queda and then walk away in mere months. Trying to install a 'western democracy' was doomed to failure, as it has been in every backwater adventure. The lessons never seem to be learned..
 

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The endless wars are terrible but vaporizing terrorists (jihadists) that martyr lives to do harm is not. Good documentaries of the Afghan saga have been made of operations that were 'just' followed by political quagmires that were not. The West should have simply taught the Taliban a lesson about harboring Al-Queda and then walk away in mere months. Trying to install a 'western democracy' was doomed to failure, as it has been in every backwater adventure. The lessons never seem to be learned..
That's true! You cannot just plant "Western democracy" !
 

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For Canada, the story of 911 was in Gander, Newfoundland.

After the attacks in the US, 38 passenger jets were detoured to Gander alone and 8,000 unexpected passengers arrived.

The planes arrived early in the morning after the attack and the passengers were told they had to remain on the plane. They were on the planes until the next morning when they were taken off and into the small airport. In the airport they discovered a room full of food and comforts. The people of Gander......9,000 strong, and surrounding communities had stayed up all night cooking and preparing for 8,000 unannounced visitors to be welcomed to Gander, NFLD, and Canada.

I forget how many languages were spoken among the passengers and some didn't speak any English at all but everyone got by.

It is quite a story that still resonates today. Teachers in the US talk about it with students as an example of what the best in humanity looks like.

 

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@gibor365 was previously with the I.D.F. (Israeli Defense) and has spewed anti-Muslim rhetoric in all the years he's posted here.

Just another far-right war monger. Stephen Harper was another one.
Actually I was CMF member 1.5 years before you 😁 and since you joined, you spewing pro-Islamists and anti-Semitic rhetoric
 

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@gibor365 was previously with the I.D.F. (Israeli Defense) and has spewed anti-Muslim rhetoric in all the years he's posted here.

Just another far-right war monger. Stephen Harper was another one.
.. and some.

If it's true he was indeed part of the I.D.F. (as self-proclaimed), look at how far he has gone on the path of degradation, stucked in some IT position for the past 22 + years in Ontario, Canada, the land of pussies and retards (all his words/declaration, not mine's). Must be super-proud.

Btw, can't help with the translation from english to russian.
 

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Any memories to share?
I'm curious as to what your memories of the day itself are as you seem to have skipped that part and jumped to the aftermath.

For me, I'd flown into Regan National the Sunday before and was working in Rockville, MD. My Canadian colleague had a dentist appointment so that she was one of the last to land before everything was shutdown.

Lots of activities as the Americans phoned family/friends in NY as well as feared the three story complex was next. I figured that with the FBI building, the Capital Building and the WH so close - lots more would go first. The other Canadians wanted to go back to Canada, where it was "safe".

Around noon we were sent home, which for me was the long term stay hotel across the street. The media coverage was interesting as the big networks were running stories about "no one considered this" while PBS ran interviews with CIA/NSA types who had read a report of that this option, years ago.

When I stepped outside, I could see the smoke from the burning Pentagon.


Other memories include colleagues who had isolated themselves to go over the project plan/next steps being surprised at the activity when they re-emerged. Also a US co-worker who was convinced that despite the disruption of the shutdown for planes that everything would be sorted out in time to fly home on the Thursday night (he took a bus).


There's also the evacuation by volunteers and ferry boats of Dunkirk sized crowds then re-supply of responders/equipment on the water (not a personal memory :)).


Cheers



Cheers
 

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Any memories to share?

The 9/11 attack (carried out mostly by Saudi Arabians and likely supported by the Saudi government) happened early in my adult life, just as I went out into the world. The next 20 years was endless wars in the Middle East, constant fear-mongering about terrorism, and erosion of personal rights and freedoms. Not to mention constant pro-war propaganda.

For all my adult years, I've watched western countries (notably US and UK, but also unfortunately Canada at times under Conservatives) invade and destroy countries they have no business being involved in, seemingly ready to bomb any country, except for the country which actually sent the damned 9/11 terrorists.

I also posted the complete Fahrenheit 9/11 documentary, which you can watch for free here.
You forget that Liberal Chretien was PM when the Afghan war started? Canada went in to support the US and it should have just been to oust the terrorists and get out. It was a "just" war in the beginning but devolved into a quagmire. The 2003 Iraq war started under false pretences was not just. I never believed the WMD or 911 connection the US tried to make.
 

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You forget that Liberal Chretien was PM when the Afghan war started? Canada went in to support the US and it should have just been to oust the terrorists and get out. It was a "just" war in the beginning but devolved into a quagmire. The 2003 Iraq war started under false pretences was not just. I never believed the WMD or 911 connection the US tried to make.
Are you overlooking the fact that the US invoked article 5 of NATO agreement, meaning that the US dragged all the NATO allies into the Afghanistan war? Sure, you could say that Canada shouldn't oblige, but when you consider that the point of NATO is collective protection, if Canada doesn't show up, the US won't show up for Canada.
 

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Are you overlooking the fact that the US invoked article 5 of NATO agreement, meaning that the US dragged all the NATO allies into the Afghanistan war? Sure, you could say that Canada shouldn't oblige, but when you consider that the point of NATO is collective protection, if Canada doesn't show up, the US won't show up for Canada.
Article 5 didn't stop Harper from ending combat operations in 2011. While Obama was doubling down on the "good war". And we certainly didn't follow the US into Iraq.

I remember in 2001-2003 many Liberal friends with their noses in the air proclaiming quite proudly they were supporting the Good War in Afghanistan while Bush was warmongering in Iraq, and how morally superior Canada was because of our decision to stay away from Iraq. Bush was indeed warmongering in Iraq, but Afghanistan was no Good War and it lasted nearly twice as long with more dead people and $2.3 trillion dollars flushed down the drain, including plenty of Canadian lives and money. Obama doubled down on Bush's warmongering by vowing to finish it and he flushed even more money and lives down the drain. This isn't hindsight either, there was plenty of counsel out there to stay out of the mess that was and is Afghanistan.

The Rumsfield/Cheney doctrine was exactly that. Get in, blow the snot out of Al-Qaeda, and get out. No nation building. Imposing western values on Afghanistan is more colonialization and cultural genocide and it has come to a predictable and thankful end.
 

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Article 5 didn't stop Harper from ending combat operations in 2011. While Obama was doubling down on the "good war". And we certainly didn't follow the US into Iraq.

I remember in 2001-2003 many Liberal friends with their noses in the air proclaiming quite proudly they were supporting the Good War in Afghanistan while Bush was warmongering in Iraq, and how morally superior Canada was because of our decision to stay away from Iraq. Bush was indeed warmongering in Iraq, but Afghanistan was no Good War and it lasted nearly twice as long with more dead people and $2.3 trillion dollars flushed down the drain, including plenty of Canadian lives and money. Obama doubled down on Bush's warmongering by vowing to finish it and he flushed even more money and lives down the drain. This isn't hindsight either, there was plenty of counsel out there to stay out of the mess that was and is Afghanistan.

The Rumsfield/Cheney doctrine was exactly that. Get in, blow the snot out of Al-Qaeda, and get out. No nation building. Imposing western values on Afghanistan is more colonialization and cultural genocide and it has come to a predictable and thankful end.
Not sure what your point is. Article 5 was invoked and Canada participated in NATO missions. Once those were complete, we had fulfilled our commitments as far as NATO was concerned. Iraq wasn't a NATO action and was pretty much a unilateral US operation.

As for nation building, I guess you prefer that we just invade countries and destroy all the infrastructure and leave and let the locals pick up the pieces? It's the whole Pottery Barn, you break it, you buy it. Easier short term, but then lose some credibility on the international stage, but if you don't care about international relations, I guess it doesn't matter. But hey, I guess you'll be the first to recognize the Taliban government, since by your reasoning, they were the rightful government in exile.
 

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bgc_fan, so you advise to plant US type "democracy" in feodal countries like Afganstan?!
No. It was doomed to failure because Afghanistan is a tribal culture with no real nationalistic identity. It's the obvious result of the colonial era when Europeans arbitrarily drew lines on a map. My point is you can't just go into a country and leave it in chaos for "reasons".
 

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No. It was doomed to failure because Afghanistan is a tribal culture with no real nationalistic identity. It's the obvious result of the colonial era when Europeans arbitrarily drew lines on a map. My point is you can't just go into a country and leave it in chaos for "reasons".
I agree! If you want to prevent them from attacking you , just bomb military objects
 

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I agree! If you want to prevent them from attacking you , just bomb military objects
That doesn't work for terrorists/insurgents. They aren't "professional" types like soldiers and you're not going to be able to tell the difference between an innocent civilian and a terrorist from a distance. You make a mistake and kill too many civilians, you just end up creating more terrorists.
 

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That doesn't work for terrorists/insurgents. They aren't "professional" types like soldiers and you're not going to be able to tell the difference between an innocent civilian and a terrorist from a distance. You make a mistake and kill too many civilians, you just end up creating more terrorists.
This is why Israel notified civilians 30-60min before bombing HAMAS objects in Gaza, to let civilians to leave the place.....even though US and UK military in Afganistan were laughing at IDF
 

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For Canada, the story of 911 was in Gander, Newfoundland.

After the attacks in the US, 38 passenger jets were detoured to Gander alone and 8,000 unexpected passengers arrived.

The planes arrived early in the morning after the attack and the passengers were told they had to remain on the plane. They were on the planes until the next morning when they were taken off and into the small airport. In the airport they discovered a room full of food and comforts. The people of Gander......9,000 strong, and surrounding communities had stayed up all night cooking and preparing for 8,000 unannounced visitors to be welcomed to Gander, NFLD, and Canada.

I forget how many languages were spoken among the passengers and some didn't speak any English at all but everyone got by.

It is quite a story that still resonates today. Teachers in the US talk about it with students as an example of what the best in humanity looks like.

Watched the musical 'Come From Away' few days ago. It shows what happened that night at Gander, quite enjoyable.
 
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