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Discussion Starter #1
1) Apply for as many CC as possible
2) Withdraw 100K in cash from CC accounts
3) Move to Poland & PROFIT
4) Declare bankrupcy
5) Return in 5-6 yrs & repeat steps 1-4
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Why leave out the rest of the plan?

6) Wait for RCMP to show up at your door.
7) Try to run out of the back door.
8) Get caught and spend time in jail for resisting arrest.

...
That's where the beauty lies. Please describe what is illegal about the plan? Nothing illegal about using the funds lent to you, nothing illegal about moving to Europe, and there is nothing illegal about not having the ability to pay the loan back. Who's fault it is for lending money to this type of person?

There is no recourse for defaulting on unsecured debt.
 

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There is nothing illegal if it life happens that way.

It is fraud when you plan it, a criminal offense.

http://www.bank-banque-canada.ca/en/banknotes/pdf/sentencing_fraud.pdf

I believe that everyone's goal here is to structure their finances the best possible within the law. Start going outside that guideline and are you are asking for trouble.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
It's only fraud if you mislead or lie for gain. If a CC company wants to give credit to someone living on government assistance, why can't this person spend it? (with the hope of 'growing' out of the debt, like our gov't deficit)
 

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I really wonder how you fail to see that this would be a criminal offence.

In any case, because you are confident that there's nothing illegal about your plan, ... when you do execute it, would you care to post in this thread again, and tell us:
- your real name
- your address and contact info in Canada
- your address and contact info in the european country you are going to.

Since there's nothing illegal about what you are doing, there should be no problem telling us those information and let us provide them to the proper authorities when requested?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Really? The debtors can go after other assets (in this case, it would be your $100K in the bank) or go to court to have wages garnisheed. Unsecured does not mean no recourse.
Why would it be in a bank account? Silly place to keep that kinda cash. And kind of hard to garnish wages that do not exist.


I really wonder how you fail to see that this would be a criminal offence.
Because it is not a criminal offence. It may be viewed as immoral by some, but there is nothing illegal about taking a loan.

And I'm sure you'd post your full name & info online once hit a big windfall of cash.
 

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Would it really be possible to withdraw that much cash against so many credit cards? Seems that much unusual activity would prompt checks on your credit profile, and clamping down on credit available.

And even if it were possible (and legal), it would take a lot more than $100k to get me to leave Canada for 6 years, declare bankruptcy, and live in poverty in Poland.
 

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Why would it be in a bank account? Silly place to keep that kinda cash. And kind of hard to garnish wages that do not exist.
I have a friend who works at a law firm and spends her days seizing the assets of people who don't pay their credit card bills -- believe me, they can track you down anywhere and they will take whatever they can. You can change your name, your country, etc., and they will track you down eventually. They and the investigators they hire know all the tricks that people use. If you go to Poland you should probably stay there to play it safe ;)
 

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All this trouble for $100K? You must be kidding right? I have a paper loss of $100K on a single stock in my portfolio. Change it to $100M and that might be worth it.
 

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That's where the beauty lies. Please describe what is illegal about the plan? Nothing illegal about using the funds lent to you, nothing illegal about moving to Europe, and there is nothing illegal about not having the ability to pay the loan back. Who's fault it is for lending money to this type of person?

There is no recourse for defaulting on unsecured debt.
First you are going to have to actually get $100k in credit. How are you going to qualify for that? You probably have a very good job + assets. Once you take the cash, that cash is an asset that would have to be included in you bankruptcy. Unless you spend it all. Then you going to have to demonstrate that there was no fraudulent conveyance of that (or any other) asset. If there is then you could face fines and jail time.


Assuming that you get away with this the first time, there is no guarantee that you will a second. The court is under no obligation to discharge you a second time (or the first for that matter).

Bankruptcy offences

198. (1) Any bankrupt who

(a) makes any fraudulent disposition of the bankrupt’s property before or after the date of the initial bankruptcy event,

(b) refuses or neglects to answer fully and truthfully all proper questions put to the bankrupt at any examination held pursuant to this Act,

(c) makes a false entry or knowingly makes a material omission in a statement or accounting,

(d) after or within one year immediately preceding the date of the initial bankruptcy event, conceals, destroys, mutilates, falsifies, makes an omission in or disposes of, or is privy to the concealment, destruction, mutilation, falsification, omission from or disposition of, a book or document affecting or relating to the bankrupt’s property or affairs, unless the bankrupt had no intent to conceal the state of the bankrupt’s affairs,

(e) after or within one year immediately preceding the date of the initial bankruptcy event, obtains any credit or any property by false representations made by the bankrupt or made by any other person to the bankrupt’s knowledge,

(f) after or within one year immediately preceding the date of the initial bankruptcy event, fraudulently conceals or removes any property of a value of fifty dollars or more or any debt due to or from the bankrupt, or

(g) after or within one year immediately preceding the date of the initial bankruptcy event, hypothecates, pawns, pledges or disposes of any property that the bankrupt has obtained on credit and has not paid for, unless in the case of a trader the hypothecation, pawning, pledging or disposing is in the ordinary way of trade and unless the bankrupt had no intent to defraud,

is guilty of an offence and is liable, on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding five thousand dollars or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one year or to both, or on conviction on indictment, to a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three years, or to both.
 

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OP needs to read up on bankruptcy law & proceedings. The $100k debt (plus huge interest penalties) would not be erased by a bankruptcy filing, because the money was obtained with fraudulent intent. Fleeing the country to avoid paying the debt would also be a crime.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
OP needs to read up on bankruptcy law & proceedings. The $100k debt (plus huge interest penalties) would not be erased by a bankruptcy filing, because the money was obtained with fraudulent intent. Fleeing the country to avoid paying the debt would also be a crime.
How is this fraudulent intent? Money borrowed to spend, all legally, is not fraud. Does it really matter if the money is spent on a car, clothes or booze & drugs?

Moving to another country is not against any law either.
 

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How is this fraudulent intent? Money borrowed to spend, all legally, is not fraud.
The fradulent intent comes from the fact that you do not plan to pay it back. Borrowing money to spend is perfectly legal, as long as you pay it back. Borrowing money with no intention to pay it back is called "stealing."

In the credit card company's view, you have stolen their money, which is why they hire law firms and detective agencies to get it back from you (or to seize whatever assets they can if you've spent the money and have nothing left).
 

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Discussion Starter #19
The fradulent intent comes from the fact that you do not plan to pay it back. Borrowing money to spend is perfectly legal, as long as you pay it back. Borrowing money with no intention to pay it back is called "stealing."
What if one does plan on paying it back fully.... after winning the lotto? Or after getting a job? Intent is difficult to prove

Some of you guys are big ballers with 100M to play with, but to others 100K is a good bit of wonga
 

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What if one does plan on paying it back fully.... after winning the lotto? Or after getting a job? Intent is difficult to prove
I think your intent becomes pretty clear after 1) you don't pay your minimum monthly payments back to the credit card company, and 2) you leave the country.

These two behaviors are clear indications of your strategy, and you are not even close to being the first person to dream up this idea; it's one of the oldest ploys in the book; the credit card companies are wise to it.
 
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